Who / What is this bike ?

[G JONES]

Anyone know what this bike is ?
http://www.sport-pics.co.uk/2009_season ... pa5117.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Triplebrew]

Looks like the Roeburys Sylvester Suzuki (GT750 engine) I think.

[G JONES]

Looks like the Roeburys Sylvester Suzuki (GT750 engine) I think.

Thanks - just confirming if it's a 2 stroke...
I have tried to read the eligibility rules for classics - but they are so complex - I tend to give up before I can find what is allowed - and what isn't....
I'm sure I read something about a "banshee" in a race report somewhere - not sure if it was here - or on the classic site...?

[NickR]

Ian's correct, it is the Roebury's Sylvester Suzuki.
The photo was taken at Pembrey this year.
Ian Johnson owns the Banshee Imp, he's the CRMC sidecar eligibility guy and is on here as "Sidecar Bloke."
He'll clarify any eligibility issues, he's very helpful and ever so approachable.

[Bob B]

Gordon - you are tight in that a Banshee is mentioned in CRMC rules. Unfortunately that is not the motor doing the rounds at the moment based on TZ kit but a three cylindered strtoker DKW outfit named the Banshee as when originally raced with no form of silencing whatsoever that is what its owner thought it sounded like. Believe that Doug Ward owned it some too.

PM me if I can help unravel things for you

[G JONES]

Gordon - you are tight in that a Banshee is mentioned in CRMC rules. Unfortunately that is not the motor doing the rounds at the moment based on TZ kit but a three cylindered strtoker DKW outfit named the Banshee as when originally raced with no form of silencing whatsoever that is what its owner thought it sounded like. Believe that Doug Ward owned it some too.
PM me if I can help unravel things for you

Thanks Bob - am just curious what 2 strokes are eligible at the moment - and if the eligibility rules "move up" a year every year - or if they are stuck at a particular cut-off year...surprised the Suzuki kettle is eligible - surely a TZ 700 / 750 is around the same age / era ? - and a TR / TZ 350 for that matter ?
I can vaguely remember seeing a Saab outfit years ago at Longridge - when I was riding solo - but not heard of the DKW...
Just looking at a few options for running any sort of 2 stroke engine on a "roads" circuit now they are no longer allowed at the TT....
Mind you - if TT entries keep falling like this year - they might even allow a 2 stroke back (I will not hold my breath)

[Bob B]

Right - here goes In the original CRMC eligibility rules all strokers have a cut off date of 1967 - that's it.

However since the original rules which were subdivided by age of machine into Periods 1 & 2 there has since been additional classes of P3 & P4 which are loosely defined as 'Post Classics'. The latter were originally covered by Forgotten Era rules of another club which has since dropped the class.

If you seriously wish to run a stroker within the classic period of pre 67 then your options are somewhat limited to probably the Saab or DKW triple engines as a practical solution which within their correct period capacity of c850ccan be quite quick and reliable. There was of course another stroker of the period ridden by Bill Boddice, the Ernie Earles double Ariel Arrow engined outfit, should you fancy building one The Suzi kettle is certainly outside of Period 1 & 2 CRMC eligible motors.

Otherwise it's four strokes of all kinds whether of two or four wheeled origin. There were several oufits in the early/mid 60s that were 1200cc Volkswagen powered, haven't heard or seen any such ever within CRMC.

I also remember seeing at Brands in 1966 an oufit with a Koehler Canadian snowmobile engine, another eligible stroker, should you fancy it

[sidecar bloke]

Just to try to clarify the possition, the Banshee first hit the tarmac in 1959 with 500 norton power Doug Ward who built said outfit then fitted the DKW which apears in the classic racer from way back 72 ish, he then fitted the imp in the 80's.

The Rowburry outfit is an 750 kettle and runs as a post classic P4. These rules were before my time and are a bit of a mess in my opinion, basicaly a post classic motor in a classic frame as i said a horlicks of a thing.

Please contact me if i can help in any way

[NickR]

Ian Johnson owns the Banshee Imp, he's the CRMC sidecar eligibility guy and is on here as "Sidecar Bloke."
He'll clarify any eligibility issues, he's very helpful and ever so approachable.

Just got an e-mail from one of the classic lads (You know who you are.).................

"you brown-nosing twat!"

[G JONES]

"you brown-nosing twat!"

Nice bunch these classic lads (sorry - and lasses) - eh ?
So - I take it the beemers and imps (and the kettle) (10" or 13" wheels ?) are running in the P3 / P4 ?
Just curious (at the moment)

[petercaughlin]

ITS LIFE JIM!!!!BUT NOT AS WE KNOW IT, ITS A STINKWHEEL

[G JONES]

ITS LIFE JIM!!!!BUT NOT AS WE KNOW IT,

Just better....

ITS A STINKWHEEL

Yep - a bang every time - rather than every other time... - I'll get off it now....

[sidecar bloke]

To clarify the CRMC sidecar classes:-

Period 1 - 750cc two cylinders maximum, two valves per cylinder maximum. 16" plus wheels on bike side.

Period 2 - engine as Period 1. Wheels less than 16" e.g. 13" or 10".

Period 3 - Basically everything else. Motors maximum of 1300cc. As many cylinders/valves as you like, any wheel size. 2 stroke motors pre-1967, 4 stroke motors pre-1972 e.g. Hillman Imp, BMW, Weslake, A series Mini, Honda CB750 to a maximum bore of 830cc single overhead cam.

These are the three classic classes.

Period 4 - post-classic. Sidecars must be front exit. Basically classic outfits with younger motors e.g. 750cc Kettle. The TZ750 motors are too fast and too powerful and would wreck the grid which is now up to capacity, with reserves.

What we have now appears to work - so don't lets rock the boat!

So if you are considering joining the classic grid I do know of a DKW motor which would fit perfectly in the classic class or the 750 Kettle which seems to run happily with the rest of the classics. You could always try the Konig if you're up for a challenge!

Ian

[ianw]

There was also a WARTBURG engined outfit I raced against in the 70's, that was a 3 cylinder 2 stroke. It was raced by a guy from Ellesmere Port, Cheshire.
Would have been built in the 60's.

[G JONES]

Period 4 - post-classic. Sidecars must be front exit. Basically classic outfits with younger motors e.g. 750cc Kettle.

Thanks for all of that
Having seen the word "Banshee" mentioned - and then seeing the picture of the Kettle (not knowing it was a kettle) - I did wonder if the 350 motor had been added to the list of eligible motors....

The TZ750 motors are too fast and too powerful and would wreck the grid which is now up to capacity, with reserves.

Can quite understand your thinking there - so other than an additional class - the TZ is a no-no.

What we have now appears to work - so don't lets rock the boat!

No intention of rocking the boat - just trying to continue running a 2 stroke for as long as possible....

So if you are considering joining the classic grid I do know of a DKW motor which would fit perfectly in the classic class

Could be fun - but I would guess a lot more work involved than I would want to get involved in.

or the 750 Kettle which seems to run happily with the rest of the classics. You could always try the Konig if you're up for a challenge!

The kettle (I would guess) is probably the most viable proposition - if the bits are still available - and I would guess a lot still are - the konig would be the most interesting though - but again - as for parts availability....
Thanks for taking the time to attempt to educate me