Standard cylinder heads; much difference?

[kew]

I was thinking about this earlier when Steve mentioned it, my first thought was .. "nerrrr can't be" ... but then I thought about it; could it be like the lorry situation ... i.e. a bigger engine can sometimes be more economical than a smaller one because you don't have to thrape the t*ts off it to get it to go .... could it be that your tuned set up just produced more power so kept you in a slightly lesser rev range to produce the speeds you wanted, where as this year you may have been at more 100% throttle to get the same speeds? ....

I've thought of all the things you are thinking of but nothing adds up.
I've used the same gearing and according to the logging I have been pulling the same revs at the same places.
Daft innit.
I have just thought of one difference, last year I had a 2006 head and this year 2003 head which has bigger ports.
When we got to the finish there was NO petrol left in the tank
I'm going to bed, my head hurts.

[bludge]

Some Engines I think were more standard than others.

......I just think it's a shame that teams are prepared to go to the TT and cheat.

I think it's also a shame that an engine can be stripped and found to be using kit parts, and 'the authorities' that need to know are told as much, but ignore it.....

Call it gossip, call it what you like (I really don't care) .......it makes you look at race results in a different way, that's for sure.

[anp]

Does the damp weather not make the engine run weak and the ecu correct this and use more fuel ?

[matthewsayle]

fair play to dean for naming names. No offence either guys but everyone was whispering around the paddock about it and this thread was only started to whisper again why the f dont you just start a thread called "who cheated then" People are too quick to jump on the message boards and start rumours .

At the end of the day people have always exploited the rules to the full extent of the book and regs and always will do and if the the ACU scrutineers chack over the bikes after the race and find nothing wrong then whats the problem. All the top bikes get checked over and no-one was pulled for cheating all results stood. The same thing happens in F1 (cars) where teams know the rules and do everything possible to gain a edge whilst abiding, causing a stir everytime someone wins a race.

Me personally did 120 through sulby after flat out through quarry bends ona k7 suzuki with yoshi ecu on my old windle but I think that speed was maybe down to gearing etc.

1 question though Moly 135 ish through the speed trap on a brand new built chassis and Kawasaki 2012.
at least 10 others at over 140 mph on 2006 to 2011 hondas and older chassis.

anyone answer that
Matty

[johnmitch93]

Could be the torque difference.
Tuned engines generally make lot's more, so the bike is easier to ride.
Standard engine needs to do more work for the same speed, so uses more fuel.

Or maybe the wind was against you...?

[frankie66]

Molly was running it in gently .........

[realroadracer]

I didn't start this thread so people could rehash old rumours/grievances.

So let me put it another way. Did anyone run a totally standard engine this year when they had run a tuned engine in previous TT's? If so, what difference did you find?
Does running a Motec (or similar) system increase the power output of an otherwise standard engine? If so, by how much?
Did anybody do modifications below the cylinder head that they had never done before? If so, what were they and what difference did it make?
I'm not asking for specific figures, just a general idea.

Has anybody any thoughts on the impact on costs of the new regulations? I assuming nearly everybody had to go out and buy standard cylinder heads to meet the regulations I'm assuming that some people did things below the cylinder head for the first time.

In short, did it: a) cost you more to go slower ?
b) cost you more to do the same speed ?
c) cost you about the same for no noticeable difference ?
d) all seem a complete waste of time?

Has the change in regulations been a success or a failure?

[ken]

We ran standard engines this year, we still managed to blew 2 up with bottom end failures (2 different causes). We also ran with Motec ignition for the first time so a direct comparison is difficult. Once we had sorted our problems our lap speeds were broadly similar to last year although our last lap was an improvement. We both felt we could have gone quicker if we had managed more practice laps. Difficult to say but in my view not much in it.

[bruce moore]

just an opinion !
if any top team gets caught bending the rules ever so slightly,they will get brushed under the carpet,with the way the TT is,you cant afford to disqualify a top team thats been paid odles amount of money to help promote this event as they might pull out of further races(solo or sidecar) and not return the following year ! which with the sidecars they need to keep the quality.

[Paul Phillips]

Rubbish. The recent disqualifications of McAdoo Kawasaki and TAS Suzuki in the Supersport 600 class seem to be forgotten. If you cheat and your caught you are out no matter who you are.

Paul Phillips
TT & Motorsport Development Manager

[steve-e]

Thank you Paul. I was going to post similar. The legal consequences are too huge to contemplate.

[Jo Warriner]

OK, instead of talking about cheating, there's one thing I'd like to ask about the new rules. Do you think a new lap record should have been established, as it is now essentially a new class?

[Alan Richardson]

Good question. New thread for this one i think!

[bruce moore]

NO,standard means standard ie ignition etc,

[teamradar]

I bought standard heads for my 3 motors, (an expense I could have done without),our speed trap times were pretty much the same but our fastest lap was better than last year due to continuing to learn our way round.
Maybe a comparison regarding reliability would be useful. How many blow-ups compared with last year? And how many of these were valvetrain related?

Bruce, Motec,DTA ecu's are a good tool for logging etc & help massively with reliability. If you take them away people will have to spend the money on logging systems instead so where is the benefit in going standard?