Sidecar TT

[pat]

In reply to wingnut and off engine topic the British F2 Championship will NOT be a controlled series for 2014

[wingnut]

Thank you Pat that's put that particular rumour to bed and I know will be welcomed by the many different sources I had heard it from.

[lang]

Steve you ask about cam duration being free but not lift.
As you say, the most cost effective way to obtain a performance camshaft was to grind the base circle from a std camshaft
(cost approx £300) this will no longer be allowed as it increases lift, that is why the piston valve pockets had to be machined deeper.
It used to be with genuine Yamaha race kit camshafts that the duration was very different, but the lift remained the same as std.
I presume that other manufacturers race kit camshafts are the same as this but I can not say with certainty.
So it would seem that you will be able to use a pair of camshafts costing approx £1500, but not a pair costing approx £300.
Having said that, in my opinion the race kit cams are far better as you can obtain perfect valve timing on all cylinders, something not always possible with reground camshafts.

[David Stewart]

Well I'm confused??????????????

This was discussed AT LENGTH at the last ACU Road Race Committee meeting and it was agreed there to leave the regs as they were in 2012 & 2013. John was there and so was Roy, so perhaps one of them could tell me whether I was hallucinating or not???

[Jo Warriner]

I suppose you don't NEED two engines, one for TT, one for fsra; there's nothing to say you can't run standard still. My concern would be that it makes qualifying even harder and the gap from top to bottom bigger.

[john newton]

You'd think that would be the case, Jo, wouldn't you? But using that logic, having standard engines for the last two years would have slowed everybody and the gap would have narrowed. But well over half the 2013 teams who had done the TT before this year, went FASTER than their best upto-and-including 2011 time! I wonder how that happened

[hasbeen]

Hi Dave
I'm glad your confused as I thought Alzheimer's had really set in and I was getting past it
and had lost all control of my brain [what little there is]
As you say this was discussed at length and we were told engine rules would not be changed.
If you remember I even asked if that was the final decision and was told yes.
But it seems like the A.C.U. haven't got the final say on what goes on at the TT and it's all
been changed in the I.O.M.
To say I was gobsmacked when I had the phone call on Friday to inform me is an understatement.
John

[oldbelly]

I suppose its the same as the Classic TT John, ( both Johns),. The organisers are going to do what suits their event. After a much better entry and a higher percentage of finishers this year It looked like sidecars were on the up at the TT. It doesnt make sense and not being able to police what was in place makes the organisers of such a big event look silly.

[Wal]

Just a question in respect of logistics, given that it would appear there are normally around 20+ teams at a British championship meeting, with probably around half of them doing the TT. So relative to the 50+ teams at the TT maybe it wont affect as many people as we first think, how many teams will it actually affect ?. . . .just askin' !

[steve-e]

Interesting point Wal as a few of the British teams aren't at the tt either. it might not effect so many as expected.

[flexford]

Well I suppose that depends, if the question is which of the British riders do the TT then I have just calculated this from the 2013 British points table (14 teams)

John Holden
Conrad Harrison
Gary Bryan
Gordon Shand
Tony Baker
Frank Lelias
Roy Hanks
Howard Baker
Nicky Dukes
Dave Atkinson
Dean Lindley
Peter Alton
Tony Thirkell
Dougie Wright

But that figure is only accurate if all other TT competitors run tuned for their non road racing events as S100 and OM are also standard top end. If non British teams ran TT/S100/OM spec'd engines all year round then it could potentially effect a far bigger number than 14

[smithy1]

Let me put the case for a T.T. competitor in the low end of the field.
I run 2005Honda engines.The standard head means I go from a 119 bhp to a 110 bhp. It has been hard to buy standard heads(two) to comply with the standard head rule.I like many others who run older engines have "hot cams"on the shelf.
The modern engines give over 120 bhp.
The standard head rule meant I paid money to drop down 10 or so bhp against the later engines.
To convert the sidecar I run to run modern engines I would have to buy two engines ,two sumps ,new electrics ,new ecu, new exthausts and chassis modifications as the final drive sprocket on the later engines is higher than the older engines.just to get back to what my tuned engines were putting out.
Lets say £7K to get back to 2011 spec.
£7k to be where I was two years ago!
The standard head rule has not been policed.I am not saying crews cheated ,but ...How many engines have been policed in the British champonship,T.T. Southern 100 etc?
The two class rule is devise. Especially as it is hard to police. The "open 600 cc" rule is easy.Bore and Stroke.
The last thing Sidecars want is to split the F2 class in two.
Lets face it in a few years we will not be in a real shortage of engines as ,for instance,I understand that Kawasaki are only bringing into the U.K. this year 20 bikes.It does not take a brain surgeon to realise that not too many 600's will be in the breakers.
The standard head rule was hard to police ,costly,devise,although I accept it was brought in with good intentions.Lets get back to 600 c.c.Then we need to face the lack of 600cc engines and open the class to different capacities.

[Jo Warriner]

As far as I am aware Jo, all 2013 Sidecar competitors were sent an email asking for their thoughts on the then current regulations.
I suppose whether you class that as extensive depends on how many people replied and what they said.

So who did reply to the email?

[teamradar]

I replied & almost begged for things to be left as they were. But I guess mine is a relatively small voice.

[Wal]

It has been hard to buy standard heads(two) to comply with the standard head rule.

You're right Smithy1, it was hard to buy standard heads. It did beg the question at the time. . .If around 50 TT competitors in 2011 with a minimum of two engines each, had to buy standard heads, given the shortage of 600cc engines/parts. . . .where the heck did 100'ish standard cylinder heads appear from in a few months ?