600cc in speedweek

[steve-e]

http://www.speedweek.com/seitenwagen/ne ... 0-ccm.html

A sidecar class for all nations with 600 cc
From Rudi Hagen - 28.06.2015-17: 57
Ralph Bohnhorst, steward at the FIM has a dream: at some point, there will be only a sidecar class worldwide. Is set to 600 cc engines. But there are difficulties to overcome.
On the edge of the Sidecar World Cup in the Pannonia-Ring in Hungary SPEEDWEEK.com spoke to the Braunschweiger Ralph Bohnhorst.
As you can hear, the displacement is to be reduced in the Sidecar World Championship from 1000 to 600 ccm?
That's right, we want to be the first class that manages to go with a set of regulations worldwide. This will take a while, but we are on the right track. We want to at some point, no matter where, have a single class. Then you can take the 600 in the TT, in the World Cup and in the national class.
Now is moved into different classes with the 600s and 1000s, for example, in the sidecar world championship, the IDM and the Sidecar Trophy. And in England there are successful F1 with 1000cc and F2 Championships with 600 cc and over 30 sidecars. But the spring thin out more and more, right?
Yes, the organizations have to vote among themselves. The DMSB gives drivers a three-year transition period to prepare for the conversion to preserve the national series alive. My opinion is, if we go with the 600s on a top level, the 1000 run at some point in all by itself.
Are the Dutch and the English also willing to participate?
In the Netherlands at the moment is still hard on the trip with the 1000s. The English are the key, they would join.
Before the races in Hungary, the drivers got together and voted on 600cc yes or no. What was the outcome?
Tim Reeves said, or otherwise in Donington than a few weeks ago, when we look into the future, we need to go 600 cc. We have now in the drivers line. We have discussed this at Pannoniaring with all teams. There were very heated discussions, but the time has come that we then still be able to drink a beer together. They also have all realized that we are much too small to open around the muzzle. We are eleven solid team, how do you as big trump the organizers? I give them right to say we must ride in bigger events, but Which tour you can offer eleven teams? Who does that? And since you have to say thank you when they accept you. We are on the right track and we let the organizers who take us now, are not covered.
More driver and front passenger are needed.
Of course, it comes to full driver fields, it is important that the teams survive and that the sidecar ride again in the context of meaningful events. We have the potential to vehicles. There partly in the associations have more teams with 600 ccm. In France there are 12 F1 and F2 14-teams. In the TT 70 Man standing at the start, 70 600cc sidecars.
Where all of me?
We need to take what is there. To learn so a 600-team is optimal, because the power is manageable and we did not have these professionals who always dominate the big things in more and more power. We need to adjust the power to the people. The 600 are light, bringing the focus back down. The high center of gravity in my opinion is the cause of many accidents. If the ground gets you, it brings you.
If you drive long or short chassis?
One can take long and short chassis. A stumbling block, however, there, the motor control will be on. The electronics are standard, and the rest is on. We are not able to control everything. We need to control the displacement and so good, otherwise everything would be too expensive.
So you see a positive future for the sidecar?
We have discussed with the team discussed ideas for the transformation of the regulations and there was agreement is reached. We try a class for all to create. The mood is now well in the World Cup participants. And: The last three races we go with full fields, in Assen, Brands Hatch and Oschersleben with 20 or more sidecars. We have then the end of the advantage that no one can reproach us, we would go with empty fields. We have the race with weak numerical fields driver behind us.

[kew]

So we must cut the power of the bikes because there are not enough drivers capable of driving them. What a load of d00ii0cks.
This is supposed to be the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, it is supposed to be for the top drivers and passengers, if you can't do it don't go there.
As for costs, it will cost the same to run a 600 if not a bit more.
Standard ignition would mean more problems.

[David Stewart]

We did speak about this earlier in the year and my own personal view was that it wasn't a great idea.

I did say that it would be interesting if they also allowed 500cc 2-strokes to race against the 600s though. If the high weight centre of gravity is the problem, there is your instant fix.............

[oldbelly]

F2s will rule lol. I like the standard ignition bit though.

[petercaughlin]

So, any engine you like so long as its 600cc,that`l be any jap 4 cylinder across the frame engine, DEAD BORING, at the TT the highlight for me is sidecars,but the interest is in how they are ridden,how they are set up etc as far as engines go there`s only 4 options ,to quote Henry Ford, any colour you like so long as its Black

[tonybsa2008]

From a spectator piont of view(and that is what got me into sidecars,watching in the late 70s).They are boring,F1 and F2,because they all sound,and look the same,no different engine configorations,and very little visual development.I watched the TT,on telly,apart from that I never bother to watch,even at race meetings,where I am present.
You may not like my comments,but remember to attract people into the modern sport,you have to create a spectacle,and no that does not mean DRS!!!

[steve-e]

I think close racing gets people into the sport as well and we do have that with the formula classes. I think sidecar racing now is possibly less dominated by the home inventor/mechanic who can build an engine from an egg crate and a car gearbox, more by people who are used to buying reliable Japanese machinery from a shop, doing an oil change on it now and then, and going out thrashing it. That's not to say the home inventors and engineers aren't still out there, but there isn't such a high percentage as when I was a kid. That's probably off topic from the 600cc/1000cc discussion though
I do have a feeling that in the long run it could work, people were up in arms when their 2 stroke motors were going to be obsolete and they went to 1200cc, then the stepping down to 1000cc but I don't think many really quit over it, just got the new motors fitted and carried on. The 600 probably isn't a lot less powerful than the TZs fitted in the early long ones, can't be much difference.

[mervnoble]

I think close racing gets people into the sport as well and we do have that with the formula classes. I think sidecar racing now is possibly less dominated by the home inventor/mechanic who can build an engine from an egg crate and a car gearbox, more by people who are used to buying reliable Japanese machinery from a shop, doing an oil change on it now and then, and going out thrashing it. That's not to say the home inventors and engineers aren't still out there, but there isn't such a high percentage as when I was a kid. That's probably off topic from the 600cc/1000cc discussion though
I do have a feeling that in the long run it could work, people were up in arms when their 2 stroke motors were going to be obsolete and they went to 1200cc, then the stepping down to 1000cc but I don't think many really quit over it, just got the new motors fitted and carried on. The 600 probably isn't a lot less powerful than the TZs fitted in the early long ones, can't be much difference.

Steve I completely agree regarding inventive competitors.

I think it does not matter whether the bikes in a particular championship are either 600 or 1000cc, the competition will be good and close.

I don't think short and long bikes would be a good idea in the same championship, however, after saying that I have never driven a long 'un, but have passengered on them and driven and passengered a good few short bikes.

Perhaps somebody with better experience than I would like to elaborate on this, here's hoping.

[steve-e]

Merv agreed with me, I'm going to have to think of a counter argument now

[Belly]

Is it the end of the monoque chassis "The modern sidecar" as well??

I hope not (even though I don't own one any longer) but how would a long LCR compete with a more nibble F2 short bike? I cant imagine the LCR's being power slid around fast corners with a 600cc engine!! However even if they do work the latest generation 1000cc engines are starting to blow up with more revs so god knows what a 600cc revving its nuts off in long un would do!!

Were the LCR's not made to cope with high power or instant 2 stroke power?? I don't think 2 stroke power and 600 4 stroke power characteristics can compare!!

The FIM seem to think the world championship will be popular because the numbers are high at the TT!! There is one big problem though the World Championship isn't the TT!!

I stand to be corrected and this is just my opinion before being shot down!!

[Bak189]

600c.c. max. STUPID...You want a good show and more outfits on the grid, open it up to 1500c.c. with Turbo charging,,,,,,with a Turbo you run a good stock engine and it will make plenty of horsepower....do away with F-1...F-2 only... lower racing costs.....
This opens up the class to other then Jap 4 cyl. power units.. (with Turbo you don't need no stinking mufflers) dangerous...remember the the loud handle work both way...on and off...sidecar racing World wide need fuller grids and a better show for spectators.....more C.C.'s and F-2's will do that.....if you go down to 600c.c. why not make it 125c.c.......one man's` opinion only.........BAKKER MOTORSPORTS, USA............Ps. Turbo/charging is cheap HP...been there done that.....................

[Eurocup]

Hi
it will come, all on 600cc. First in world championship, national later.
It is now the time to think about your own change if you have to. We had a F600 bike (long chassis with 600cc engine) running in our championship for 3 years in Germany, so we know what we are talking about. If you are really interested in experiences, costs, lap times etc. contact me, All the rest of talking will end nowhere.You all will run 600cc. it is just a question when it will happen. one year, two years, 3 years or finally 2019.
To see a F600 bike, come to the F2 world round in oschersleben. If the grid allows, it will run at the same races to demonstrate.

[Kickaha]

You all will run 600cc.

No actually we won't

[David Stewart]

That was a very old fashioned Teutonic response Eckart.

You might want to be careful or Kew and Old Belly will be getting out their Enfield 303s that they stashed away under the stairs some time ago............

(a joke, I hope you understand)

I do think that you'll find that people will do pretty much exactly what they want to do, rather than what they're told to do.

Ralphs obsession with how many outfits enter the TT has skewed his thoughts on this subject. The TT is an event that exists outside the normal rules of motorcycle circuit racing and has peculiar attractions that 600cc engines in long outfits simply will not replicate. If you think that those 70 bikes will suddenly decide that they want to take part in the World Championship, you are wrong.

I can only point towards the FIM F2 Trophy, which is already there and available but does not attract the support of those teams. All that will happen is that the teams currently using 1000cc powerplants will be forced to re-invest in 600cc equipment at considerable cost and struggle to sell on their old engines.

The SAFETY card has been played by the FIM, but we all know that this is total nonsense as more drivers/passengers have been seriously injured or killed on F2 Sidecars than F1 Sidecars in the 21st Century. If you were going to adjudicate based purely on the real life accident statistics, it would be F2s that the FIM shied away from not F1s.

But hey!............... Let's not allow the facts to interfere with what we want eh?

[Richard Rollings]

An alternative

F1 1000cc long chassis
F2 1000cc short chassis

Thats sorted that then