The Place

looking for a 79 tin/box windle

JUST A WORD FROM FROGLAND
TERRY DID BUILT FOLDED STEEL CHASSIS.and a RENWICK "WEDGE" has indeed reared its ugly head!!it is alive and well, and ,GASP!!,with a KONIG (caress your rosary ,you bigots !)and races in france. why in such a god forsaken place may you ask?? easy! there nobody give a fig who race what.
and it is done in the best possible taste!!why not come to the mecca of sidecar racing, may you ask??easy renwick not wanted ! so the wedge will look from afar at all the hullabally and smile to itself.and leave the bigots going their ways ,walking with little steps,hand clasped in a silent prayer to ward all evil off. a thin smile of beatitude at the thought of how righteous they are.
IF IT GOT 3 WHEEL RACE IT!! THAT IS ALL

gatekeeper wrote:a tube is a tube no matter what shape it is---how many early outfits were built with seamed tube---that is effectively a fabricated tube just like an ireson and quite a few others i suppose its down to how you wish to interpret it

I can assure you that Trevor did not make anything with furniture tube.

All bikes in these pics are pre 1972 the of Enders bike was taken by me at British GP at Silverstone in 1972,the white BMW belonged to Serge and Michel Vannestte,the other 16" BMW is Enders 67 bike with its later owner. These two bikes have the spar from s/arm to s/car wheel fabricated from sheet as were the majority of Continental BMW's. The Norton is one of three built by Mike Harris of Motor World with some help from myself in the late 60's a lot of which was constructed from 2"x1" tube. + 1 pic of BMW spar

Spar from previous post

Box beams tend to rot better than tube ones.All the condensation collecting in the corners.

Tony,The oxidisation in steel tubular constructions happens mainly at the inside welds where the structure of the steel changes. Condensation can be a problem with several causes,cracked tube or box section,welds or brazes that have the odd pin hole which allows moisture in and add to that badly controlled storage environment ie leaky and unheated sheds. I have chopped up three old round tubular classics and I have sent one BMW classic with a fabricated crossmember with bad repairs cracking and letting in water causing rot back to its owner in Holland suggesting that he scrap it. I was asked to do a repair on a solo at CRMC meeting a while ago and found the problem was rot and my mates AJS 7R had the same prob, I had to replace both bottom tubes. All old bikes are suspect,a lot have had a hard life and poor storage. So I don't think there will be a lot of difference between round and square section tubing.

The bottom line should be, if it was raced in the period, it`s ok to be raced now - simples. People are saying they`re not innovating, but racing. They`re certainly innovating in going quicker - 900 Hondas, 1100 BMWs, 1040 Imps, 900 Weslakes. Yes it was a 1300 limit in the period, but no one had those - most Imps were 875! All that`s achieved is making the engines that WERE in the majority in the era, totally uncompetitive. Tony Wheatley had it right - give everyone a season to reduce the engine sizes to the period norm. and bring back the competitiveness of triples, commandos etc. . . . but of course, everyone wants to be the big `I am` at the front and will spend whatever it takes to help them get there, rather than enjoying racing period machines - for the fun of it. Big fish in a small pond syndrome - if they want to push the envelope, go modern.

Well said,but you are banging your head against a wall if you think the powers that be will ever change things,as said if was used in the period let it race now,I remember very well the CRMC banning Dave Kays MV because it had a box section swinging arm, I have a late 60`s photo of a Rudi Kurth outfit with a box section swinging arm,they come up with the old chestnut of "logical progression" well the logical progression of classics is F1/F2,in the last couple of months there have been at least 2 "classic" outfits for sale at around £24k less than build cost,I would have thought you could build a competitive F2 for that money, so again to echo you John its Chequebook RMC not Classic RMC

last 2 posts are spot on.

The cost of a 2014 MRE classic rolling chassis + oil lines,cooler, pump,exhaust, tyres, was in excess of £19000 when you add freight or collection plus VAT. Then paint cost ,And please stop moaning about big engines and cost. Any quick reliable engine will cost similar money to build. Going roundy round for fun is OK but it's called PARADING. We go out to race and Win. If we were limited to a lower capacity the cost would not change neither would the finishing order even if we swopped bikes I doubt that a lot of the positions would change Those who race classic do so because they don't wan't to race F1 or F2 also if you care to check out the amount of classic meetings there are both here and abroad you will see that it's not a small pond it's a growing one! Instead of criticising please put your low cost classic together and join us and show us the error of our ways, we would luv you to come out and play. Actions speak louder than words. DO IT

There's no point argueing amongst ourselves
The big Imps and BMWs are not classic that is obvious, they were not available pre 72.
I am racing an engine that I raced when classics were new.
If anything was available pre 72 it should be allowed if it wasn't available it shouldn't be allowed.

Interesting discussion gents, can I just say well done in keeping it civil

hi steve keeping it civil will be difficult as we are dealing with homo-sapien!!.racing is what it is and has not changed!so the "wollets" regardless of talent will be disapearing over the horizon and it can be disartening sometimes not to be allowed a crack at them. however the "wollets" would be well to rememberthat without the "non-wollets" they would be no racing. difficult to organise and manage but feasible. back to the subject the bottom line should be if it raced in that period that is it!(dennis keen 1000 konig for example?!!!).

Hi herve, hope your well?
I'm trying to think back, was it 2 x 500cc Konig engines that dennis had in his outfit???