Konny and Konig engines

[ianw]

Thanks Michel, there are two big differences between running on Petrol verses Methanol.
One- Methanol creates more power than Petrol because of the extra volume of liquid & the higher compression ratio.
Two- the latent heat generated by Methanol is a lot lower than Petrol that's why you need a great volume of liquid than an engine running on Petrol, the temperature generated using Petrol will be a lot higher than with Methanol.
If the Konny engine's water exits at 65 degrees C on Methanol, then it will be a lot higher using Petrol, all the tolerances will be affected.
It is a lovely looking engine, but I feel it will replicate Rudi Kurths problems with the Cresent engine.
You could say that Konig engines made the transition from the water to sidecar racing quite successfully,
but anyone who knows anything about Konig history knows that Kim Newcombe put untold hours in the Konig factory
into making the engine reliable, ish. Have Konny put in that same development work?

[den etheridge]

METHONOL not allowed in Classic Club.??

[Simon Smith]

Agree with Ian regarding the gearbox. I think the TTI boxes are very good indeed.

[bruce moore]

If that's the case, that Konny engine is running liners, then the Piston to bore clearance will be a massive problem.
Konny engines have been designed to run a "total loss" cooling system & if I remember from a previous post, the water outlet from the engine is 65 degrees C. When running a circulating cooling system that figure of 65 degrees C will be ni on impossible to maintain, especially given the good old British climate.
Hope you have a good supply of pistons!
The only way round the liner issue would be to run Nicasil Ceramic coated aluminium liners instead of steel one's & to have a batch of pistons made out of the same grade of aluminium that the liner is made from.

we used to run steel liners on 100cc rotary karts back in the 80's,they used to rev 14000 +
were ok with decent 2stroke oil

[RARING TO GO]

we used to run steel liners on 100cc rotary karts back in the 80's,they used to rev 14000 +
were ok with decent 2stroke oil[/quote]
Konny have been running steel liners for 30 years too.

[ianw]

Sorry Michel, you & Bruce are missing my point. Why I'm suggesting Aluminum liners is that they will expand at virtually the same rate as the piston so tolerances can be a lot closer, this equates to more power.
You have a lot less possibility of the piston seizing, aluminum verses the steel liner. The piston to bore clearance with the steel liner will have to be greater because the steel liner does not expand as quickly as the aluminum piston.

Put bluntly. there is no way those Konny engines can be generating the claimed power output if they are running steel liners.

[lang]

Generally, steel liners in a water cooled alloy cylinder are OK if the seal between the liner and cylinder is adequate, with regard to maximum performance they are not as good as a nicasil coated bore. The reasons being - they require much larger clearance tolerance, and they create much more friction. One of the first things to do when tuning an engine for maximum performance is to try and reduce the internal friction as much as possible. One advantage of steel liners, however, is they are cheaper to produce and can be replaced reasonably easily.

[Bob B]

Michel, yes I know how long the other one took but when can see this one on the track?

[dick hawes]

At least the site aint boring at the moment.

I reckon more people logged on recently to follow the opinions

than phoned in to vote on the X FACTOR.

[lang]

At least the site aint boring at the moment.

I reckon more people logged on recently to follow the opinions

than phoned in to vote on the X FACTOR.

Not sure about the X factor votes,but certainly more have logged on than voted recently for the new police commisioners- having said that , getting my Konig accepted by the CRMC is much more of a national issue than law and order!

[RARING TO GO]

Michel, yes I know how long the other one took but when can see this one on the track?

Bob just spoke to Peter Rix, (who by the way is amazed at how presumptuous some posters are) and he told me that this engine is built, but it has some vibration issues which have to be addressed. I only saw /realised today that the engine could be mounted upright, exhaust to the front inlets to rear as per a normal bike engine, which helps with space in the 350 chassis. I will push for a date when we can obtain a working model and give it a go. BTW the leaking liner issue was solved 20 years ago.

[steve-e]

Bob just spoke to Peter Rix, (who by the way is amazed at how presumptuous some posters are)

In this section? As from the guidelines...

6) Do not use other peoples' logins or allow others to log on as you.
(blah...blah)
Access to areas is set by usergroups dependent on the person registered, so if you register as yourself you may find different groups available to you.

[G JONES]

Solid works drawings of the 350 I have commissioned, may be good for F350but who cares. http://www.konny.cz/news/news.html

Michel - what is the bore / stroke ? - same as the 700cc engine ?
It's a pity the gudgeon pins are 15mm in that engine - we could maybe have an alternative source of pistons for the TZ (TZ are 16mm)

[RARING TO GO]

Konny are quite capable of the manufacture of TZ pistons, I discussed it with them earlier this year, they would however need a piston to re engineer. Your call.

Put bluntly. there is no way those Konny engines can be generating the claimed power output if they are running steel liners.
The liners are hand push fit and it is not possible for water to ingress the liner, work that one out.

[ianw]

Your still missing my point Michel!!!!
I have nothing against steel liners or their ability to seal.
I'm saying that to achieve a power output that Konny are claiming, in an engine that is untried in road racing & to change the motor from a total loss water system to a circulating water system is a massive jump.
I'm trying to point out that ALUMINUM liners would be a safe option given expansion rates & as Howard points out, generated friction, also to achieve the greater power output with less friction generated losses to come any where near Konny's claimed power.

As for your comment " work that one out ", I would hazard a guess that the "steel" liner has a top hat on it & under the top hat is an "O" ring used to seal the water cavity / cylinder block. The top hat then forms the mating surface of what ever gasket is used to match up to the cylinder head surface. Am I any where close?
I don't know the lay out of the transfer ports or the water ways so I cant comment on anything to do with sealing in that area, if it is necessary that is.