2011 TT

[lovingit]

So apart from saving just to afford to get there next year I will have to buy standard engines & ecu then find it won't run properly without some form of fuelling /ignition adjustment. Great.
Most reliability issues are down to poorly designed sumps/oiling systems which can be sorted with the ability to log what's going on.
My bike is reliable due to development by Dongo,Steve Coombes etc which was done with the flexibility of Motec.

i make you right there motec is the future

Hear hear guys!!!!!


Hell fire here we go again i do have a standard engine in at the TT and i run motec i think everyone should have to run some sort of logging and then they wouldnt just keep throwing good engines at poorly set up ignitions and fuelling devices...The amount of people who come around to ask if pete of myself can richen there bike up or lean it off amazes me ..What are they basing it on ???????
Most people who run baker sumps on the suzukis are benefiting from my datalogging to improve them and the latest one is really getting there
The hondas as previously mentioned developed by nick dongo coombesy people seem prepared to benefit from the knowledge gained from logging then want to slag it off on the other hand

IF THE FERRY WAS FREE WOULD it make a difference to you going to the TT

[teamradar]

Spot on Dean.
But nobody's yet told me how buying standard engines reduces my costs. I have tuned engines almost by default as they came at the right time for the right money.The bike is quicker than I am but is set-up and reliable so my money can go on the important stuff- new tyres and race entries and getting to the TT 2011.

[steve-e]

It would not reduce your costs Andy, but it would make the class cheaper for more people to get into which was the idea of the class in the first place (as in the ACU handbook says) and is a current problem (i.e. lack of numbers at the TT).
If the F2's are not careful there will be more people coming into F1's because it's cheaper to build or buy a fairly new competitive machine.

The worst problems we have had for years; letting people with a lot of money already tied up in the sport direct it and promote their own self interests, secondly making any already set up scenario instantly obsolete. There would need to be a middle ground which DS has done superbly with the F1's where World runners run standard and the non Worlds can use the tuned motors giving them a bit longer life til they all pop and a middle ground of half tuned motors. The cheating problem really isn't manifesting itself as was expected by some (myself included), maybe some middle ground needs to be established where you can sell your stuff on at minimal loss to other racers at a lower level of racing than the TT or British.

Solo experience shows that people adapt to rule changes a lot faster than expected in sidecars with single make classes coming and going, people not just having to bin an ignition but the complete bike but there has to be a market for the redundant equipment and they turn up at club meetings and carry on.

The class is pretty much killing itself at the moment with it costing nearly as much - or maybe more than an F1 now to get on the road and that needs to change somehow, not just for the TT but for F2's in general.

It's not something people with money tied up in machines want to hear but as a sport we need to think of the full picture. I don't know what ignitions the World F1's run with their standard motors, there is definitely an example there that the F2 class could use to its advantage as not many pop themselves, it's usually the tuned motors that have trouble (the sump thing is something a lot of sidecar teams need to get sorted of course).

[Rent-a-Ballast]

I know I will get shot down for this but.
How about not paying well known teams(people) money to come and take part and share the money out to everyone to help them out with costs.

[G JONES]

make the class cheaper for more people to get into which was the idea of the class in the first place.

Well that pretty much sums it up - it's pretty simple really - as the costs rise - the numbers fall...

Racing is about going as near to the top speed your machine will go no matter what it is and competing with people on similar machinery in my humble opinion.

Again - got to agree - if the aim is to have well supported classes of racing - it has to be affordable for enough people to join in....the fact that this is being discussed here (and probably elsewhere too) means there are probably not... (enough)
Just my opinion - but for me - I would sooner see a full grid of 125s or MZs - or whatever - having a good close race - than a half full grid - and 2 or 3 at the front clearing off....
Level the playing field - as they say - whatever it takes - before it's too late..

The worst problems we have had for years; letting people with a lot of money already tied up in the sport direct it and promote their own self interests, secondly making any already set up scenario instantly obsolete.

I always thought the "Formula" racing idea was supposed to control how the class evolved (or not)
As for TT 2011 (and beyond) - so many barriers have been put in place - mainly the cost of putting together a capable (eligible) machine - the qualification regime - with it's extra costs, travel expenses, time spent on the island, etc, etc..
I'd love to do the TT again myself - but it's never going to happen while there is no class I want to ride in...
There must be quite a few people that have decided - much as they love the TT - it's just that "bit too far" out of reach...

[Bob B]

Steve beat me to it but I concur with his post totally - and he put it better too

[gravelrashed]

how about gettin ride of the stupid mountain course license cos how does 6 meetings at darley moor with eddie nelson get you ready for a trip down bray hill no comparison

[carlmc]

Yes the mountain licence qualification is farce, the future lies in a combination of all the topics discussed what about the organisers approaching experinced crews and asking them to act as ambassadors and encourage new crews to ride

[jdutton]

Yes the mountain licence qualification is farce, the future lies in a combination of all the topics discussed what about the organisers approaching experinced crews and asking them to act as ambassadors and encourage new crews to ride

between the lot of you on here i hope you sort something out

[Steve Pullan]

Andy,we all know motec is good,but too expensive for F2,which is supposed to be the a cheaper alternative to F1,Mr Honda makes a damn fine ECU which will run a standard engine with no Probs,there are people at the TT that spend thousends and lap no quicker than a standard thundercat !,so lets encourage people back and bring the grids back to 60+ outfits

Have to agree with Bruce, standard engines etc (with a dry sump.) We have found 100% reliability with our Suzuki, this has kept costs down!
If ferry costs are taken care of then I'm sure there would be quite a few more crews wanting to race - should be less breakdowns, which would keep the crowd happy (there were some excellent "time filling points of interest" done by the commentators this year while waiting for an outfit to drive past their commentry point)

[dags]

In my opinion the right question needs to be asked to get the answer you want. How about some kind of poll aimed at past riders and newcomers alike "why dont you do the TT". After all these are the people you are trying to get involved are they not?
As for us, money is the biggest hurdle as you can well imagine. Aside from the cost of coming all the way from Oz as we did, the biggest on off cost was the ferry. How this can be alleviated, I dont know.
If the TT course licence is to remain it needs to be fine tuned. Was there really a problem prior to the introduction of this licence that it has now alleviated. We had a similar thing over here in 2000 when the bikes came back to race at Bathurst. Instead of MA (our version of the ACU) being involved, it was left to a group of very fair race officials to determine who got accepted and who didnt based on their experience to takle a place like Bathurst. A few were left dissapointed but understanding why such desicions were made. All this was done at no cost to the competitor
The ambassador thing is a great idea. From our experiences last year I can tell you we were made to feel so welcome by the friendly nature of all in the TT paddock. We were lucky enough to have all our questions answered. We had so much more help from a number of individuals, most notably Roy Hanks for getting us in after just missing out on qualifying time. Simon Neary for taking us around the course and pointing out a number of places of interest. These are only a highlight of our experiences from the TT. To any potential newcomers, you will not be left to work it out for yourselves, there are any number of people to willing to help.
As for standard engines, im sitting on the fence although if it really was to happen it really needs to be phased in over a period of time to be fair to all. As for cost though, how much does it really cost to change. In our good engine we run a standard bottom end. We have a spare standard head and cams. At very minimal cost to change back to standard. There may be a cost in programming the ECU but after this is done you have different maps which can be put in dependent on what engine you are running.

Dags

[sparks on the side]

Helen, in answer to your original question Matt and I will be back next year running what ever can afford to at the time!!!!

[oldbelly]

I am seriously concerned given the attrition rate this year. 56 entries, 37 starters, 24 finishers.
If anyone wants to do the 2011 TT contact me for any help.
Also... all suggestions for how we get more people here gladly received.

Ok Helen get hold of a decent outfit for me and Ill come back next year. Well you said to contact you for any help

[realroadracer]

I think there are two aspects to this question:
1) What can the organisers do for sidecars?
2) What can the competitors do for themselves?

Speaking from a purely personal point of view I find the TT period is too long. Since the disappearance of early morning practice and the introduction of the first Saturday practice the amount of time off work required to do the TT is an absolute minimum of 10 working days (which is probably half a year's holiday allowance for most people).
In an ideal world I would like to see a return to the old race format of racing on the Saturday and then Monday.(If you have a problem on Saturday that you can't fix by Monday, I doubt you would fix it by Wednesday!).
The TT Course Licence, as far as I can see, serves no useful purpose. It merely prevents some people from being able to compete who are competent whilst enabling others to 'qualify' who should not be at the TT. It takes no account of injury or personal circumstances that may ocurr in the preceding season. If you are physically fit (proved by a medical) and competent (proved by past performance and experience) you should be allowed to compete. The Course licence also takes away some of the flexibility of finding replacement passengers. I would like somebody from the ACU to explain to me why wobbling round Elvington 6 times qualifies somebody to do the TT but why, today, Lars Schwartz, Nigel Rollason or Dick Greasley or Derek Plummer (or Nigel 'Cap' Davies) would be excluded. Dave Molyneux and Klaus Klaffenblock don't do much racing and I doubt that their performance is affected in any way by the amount of racing they do between TTs ! Also, the cost of doing 6 meetings is going to be, say, £1500-2000; money that would be much better spent on preparing a TT bike. This is a very real factor for some competitors who cannot afford to race often.
Cost is undoubtedly a major factor. Racing will always be expensive, that's a fact of life. But the cost of even getting to the Isle of Man is excessive. The organisers should contribute more. The 'start money' has not kept pace with the increase in ferry costs. This should be recognised and rectified by the organisers.
The question of engines is a tricky one. Policing is a major issue in enforcing any formula restrictions or standard engines (what is a standard engine , by the way?). What is clear is that high-revving 600cc engines are very stressed at the TT.
Instead of enforcing limitations on tuning etc, could not some relatively cheap device be fitted to restrict revs to, say 12,000rpm? Am I right in thinking that one of the solo classes at the TT (Superstock/Supersport) is subject to dyno-testing to cap maximum bhp? Surely a sample of bikes (plus the top 3) could be selected post-race from the parc-ferme to test the maximum revs on a rolling road? (or a simple device that clips on a plug lead/coil).
Maybe Wally Saunders, Geoff Bell, Keith Whiting etc would care to comment on the feasibility of an upper rev limit (for the TT).

[lang]

An instant and huge cost saver for all f2 racing including the tt would be a controled treaded tyre, everyone on the same tyre and only 1 set of wheels needed. It works very well in many car race classes.