The Place

Mick certainly would not have raced a smoker, nasty things! He also had another shop, Park Motorcycles, near the Nags Head, Holloway where latterly his Vincent outfit had pride of place on a shelf in the showroom.

666 wrote:Mick Rocco may as you said have owned and raced that bike but he never raced a 2stroke to my knowledge,i knew him from his early days at his cafe near to Arsenal football club. He repaired fairings for the local racer's in his workshop behind the cafe. He was a Vincent man alway's and we built a few Vincents together over the years with never a mention of 2strokes

Sorry misunderstanding, micky bought the vinny engine from the outfit, thats all, I too new mick well used to take vinny heads to him for valve seat and guides to be fitted when I worked at humphreys, (vincent dealers, essex road, used to be hampstead rd) behind his dads cafe, to clarify vinnie engine removed from outfit and fitted with a konig, and yep your right micky would never have driven a stinkwheel. (I AM currently involved with a business making Egli vin rep frames) apologies for not proof reading my post first time

Dave Hutchens wrote:Hi Konig buffs, picture two shows I believe Gardner carbs don,t remember them being used on a konig do
wonder how well they worked? Picture three also shows what looks like belt primary drive with what could
pass for a Bob Newby clutch. Most Konig,s at the time used either a morse chain which was origanal konig equipment, or a commando clutch with a triplex chain. Thats me probbably pestering Gerry by the transit door
and it is the 74 hutch dont now about three wheels it was frighting enough on two wheels backwards?
THE BEAR?

Something in the back of my pea brain tells me I read something about a Konig with Gardner carbs fitted but I don't recall where I read it or how successful they were.
That Renwick frame should be able to be age dated fairly easily as I don't believe Mr Renwick made many with an in board brake, changing back to a inside wheel disc as he thought the advantage of the bigger brake was not worth the effort and expense. It is possible only one was made like this, but for whom I wonder?
This machine has obviously been rebuilt/updated at a much later date to be able to have some of the features it has.

Certainly recall seeing a Konig with Gardner carbs but cannot recall who, what or where In my defence I did not take much notice as I did not consider the Konig as a 'proper' sidecar power plant then

Read my original post then

Ah yes, sorry Peter

It appears that the Renwick in the cutaway drawing is the first one John built as a prototype with the disc in board. This was also used in the same period in formula one with fatal results when drive shafts failed. Don't think it was ever used in the production Renwicks the first of which was raced by the Borets, the prototype is still owned by John Renwick and comes out occasionally. the last time I saw it was at the Festival of speed a few years ago and maybe the lined drawing is more recent than we think hence the Newby clutch, iam also told John Renwicks Unit is very close to Gardner carbs unit maybe theres the link. Have found a old magazine with an article about the Renwicks from 1972 will upload shortly Konig Freak

I remember racing against a Renwick at Snetterton with a 1000 Vin fitted and believe that to have been pre 72, any body remember it ??

666 wrote:I remember racing against a Renwick at Snetterton with a 1000 Vin fitted and believe that to have been pre 72, any body remember it ??

Hip, Hip, Hooray. Another type of Renwick that should be eligible for the CRMC.

Dave Hutchens wrote:It appears that the Renwick in the cutaway drawing is the first one John built as a prototype with the disc in board. This was also used in the same period in formula one with fatal results when drive shafts failed. Don't think it was ever used in the production Renwicks the first of which was raced by the Borets, the prototype is still owned by John Renwick and comes out occasionally. the last time I saw it was at the Festival of speed a few years ago and maybe the lined drawing is more recent than we think hence the Newby clutch, iam also told John Renwicks Unit is very close to Gardner carbs unit maybe theres the link. Have found a old magazine with an article about the Renwicks from 1972 will upload shortly Konig Freak

Looking at the cutaway drawing again Dave, and comparing it with the text in "The Remarkable Renwick". It says the first outfits used some Citreon parts and a linkage, yet the one in the cutaway has the inboard brake dating it as the prototype, yet it has the same rear suspension as yours. What age/build number is yours?

Aha! Citroen parts & linkage eh? Seem to recall that Rudi Kurth and Fritz Scheidegger played around with a similar idea using a Rennsport motor. Never saw actual battle but certainly was tested. Now that is what I call engineering & innovation

Bob, you're knowledge of the period, '60 to '80 seems extensive, could I ask you a couple of questions. My only worry is I may be a bit of topic but I'll chance it.
1) Do you ever recall an outfit with rear wheel steering?
2) Do you recall a BSA engined(maybe two) with front wheel drive?

Bill.

No good trying to butter me up Bill 666 as an old mate is much better versed than I

1) Do not recall a rear wheel steered outfit. Would have been a brave man to have built it let alone raced it as I reckon that it would have been a right handful

Are you thinking front wheel drive with rear wheel steering perhaps? See answer 2)! I have on occasion been aboard such e beast, not designed like that but usually a result of a 180° spin in the wet. Remember as a passenger approaching the old hairpin at the the end of Snet Norwich Straight and having an outfit coming straight for us in the opposite direction - almost one of those 'Our Father' moments.

2)Front wheel drive - there certainly has been at least two AFAIK, one in the UK powered by a BSA lump, can-t recall anything else about it. The second one was designed by Rudi Kurth with Fritz Scheidegger using Citroen components from a front wheel drive car, believe it was tested but never raced.

Somewhere I have a pic of said BSA, will try to ferret it out for you.

Here we go, one front wheel drive BSA Regret no details at all but perhaps someone may know ...

Bill the history of the one iam working on is not documented, but its is believed to
have originally been the Hadleigh Customs Honda 750 from 74 ridden by Dave Bexley.
In the intervening years its not known what it housed but possibly a T500/T750. John and Jack Woods did the Konig conversion to Renwick drawings in the ninety's.
John Renwick didn't number his production, but I will be taking the bare frame down to see him in the new year which hopefully will shed some light on it. Dave