The Place

Mr Duneige, take it from somebody who has actually raced sidecars competitively (unlike yourself)

This is pompous language, driven by a big ego methinks, so I take no offence.
I challenge any of the "Bump Steer experts" to show me, possibly with the aid of a sketch, how bump steer happens on a correctly set up Renwick. I can provide John Renwick's contact detail should you require it for any reason.

Reply to Bill in particular and other interested parties!

The '67 cutoff date for two strokes within CRMC was part of the original rules as drawn up by Alan Cathcart and Dick Linton. The rule was to exclude particularly Yamaha models starting from the TD2s which were streets (and streaks!) ahead of all other 250cc machinery at the time, also when bored (allegedly) to 251cc could compete in the 350cc class and annihilate Manxes, 7Rs etc. At the inception of CRMC there was no thought of including chairs but when asked Alan was very receptive; obviously we had to accept the solo rules in respect of applicable bits particularly engines. As the original eligibility bod for chairs I had a number of interesting discussions at eligibility meetings to persuade them that replica chassis should be permitted due to potential metal fatigue problems but eventually saw the light. That of course having been agreed for us it was not long ere the solo lads demanded equal rights!

Rudi was, still is, an engineering and design genius who has been influential in a variety of mechanical fields, designs include a very different light aircraft with a pusher prop that would appear to be flying backwards because of the wing configuration as well as working closely with Fritz Scheidegger over a number of years with radical new ideas.

Certainly agree that there is no individual innovation these days as it is just too easy to go buy an off the peg chassis and current regs virtually forbid use of any engine that is not Japanese, four stroke and four cylinders. I am not going off on one again on this tack otherwise Steve E will shout at me again

'Raring to leave' - 7 day ban for constantly looking for an argument rather than a debate or discussion, excessive shouting, personal insults and just getting on my nerves.
After 7 days I'll think about it.

Well done. Its an interesting thread and i for one dont want it ruined by this rubbish. Have a bun fight by PM.

steve-e wrote:'Raring to leave' - 7 day ban for constantly looking for an argument rather than a debate or discussion, excessive shouting, personal insults and just getting on my nerves.
After 7 days I'll think about it.

Surprised he got away with the attitude for so long.

Trolls have ruined the IOMTT.COM forum. Don't let them do the same here.

Good move Steve

[quote="Bob B"]Reply to Bill in particular and other interested parties!

The '67 cutoff date for two strokes within CRMC was part of the original rules as drawn up by Alan Cathcart and Dick Linton. The rule was to exclude particularly Yamaha models starting from the TD2s which were streets (and streaks!) ahead of all other 250cc machinery at the time, also when bored (allegedly) to 251cc could compete in the 350cc class and annihilate Manxes, 7Rs etc. At the inception of CRMC there was no thought of including chairs but when asked Alan was very receptive; obviously we had to accept the solo rules in respect of applicable bits particularly engines. As the original eligibility bod for chairs I had a number of interesting discussions at eligibility meetings to persuade them that replica chassis should be permitted due to potential metal fatigue problems but eventually saw the light. That of course having been agreed for us it was not long ere the solo lads demanded equal rights!

Many thanks Bob, for giving me an understanding of how it all started out, with Sir Alan and Dick Linton and the solos and I completely agree that they had a good reason to fear repeating the Japanese two stroke invasion of the solo classes. I also understand that yourself and your colleagues had to accept solo rules of the time to be allowed to become part of the CRMC. That was then and this is now, where surely the sidecar fraternity, if they so wished, could change the rules to more accurately reflect the innovation of the eras they represent. That is my sole point!! And believe me I am very grateful for all the work done in the past by all the people involved in making the CRMC what it is today!!

Rudi & Dane are heros of mine and I follow with great interest their achievements, and that strengthens my point above. Why should their and others like them's early achievements not be celebrated on the grids of our classic racing.

Bill,you make some very interesting pionts,especially about the suspension systems currently in use today on the "current" classics.
I wonder how much faster,Chris Vincent,or Klaus Enders(and many other topline drivers of the day)could have gone,on the wider,better suspended,more powerfull,and better gripping,"classics"of today.
And,I agree it would be nice to see some variety in chassis design,and engines.I have nothing against,BMWs,or any other engine,but a race full of the same engines,is boring for a spectator.
Discuss.

I take it that you are not referring to CRMC grids then? There are currently have BMW, Imp, BSA, Norton, Triumph and Honda regularly out so clearly plenty of variety. In relation to chasis etc. of todays 'classics' what is wrong with them being improved upon as long as rules / eligibilty is adhered to?

Nice to see "Raring to go" be reigned in Serious attitude problem

Don't forget we've got a stroker out there as well and and a yamaha twin.

Buddha.

We could change the rules but we don't want to.

We're quiet happy as things are.

Simon Smith wrote:We could change the rules but we don't want to.

We're quiet happy as things are.

Absolutely, Simon I agree with you, you don't want to change the rules. You've changed or bent them enough to suit yourselves with your conventional outfits to get the best out of them. What, with 13" wheels, modern racing suspension units when the original replacement type are still available for road bikes as we had to use in period, and I could go on. I've nothing against repro frames, as long as they are of the period, I've nothing against replacing non available parts with an approved equivalent, but I have something against outfits of the period that you will not let race against you!!

Thanks for the photo links very helpful, keep them coming anything is useful. sorry if ive caused a bit of a stir with it. Thanks Howard for the info on bump steer is very helpful especially to who ever I manage to get to pilot it when its finished. I have some photos some ware of the Renwick in the condition I received with the body work of, will upload soon any help is very much appreciated being a solo buff but a Konig freak

Bill Lymburn wrote:

Simon Smith wrote:We could change the rules but we don't want to.

We're quiet happy as things are.

Absolutely, Simon I agree with you, you don't want to change the rules. You've changed or bent them enough to suit yourselves with your conventional outfits to get the best out of them. What, with 13" wheels, modern racing suspension units when the original replacement type are still available for road bikes as we had to use in period, and I could go on. I've nothing against repro frames, as long as they are of the period, I've nothing against replacing non available parts with an approved equivalent, but I have something against outfits of the period that you will not let race against you!!

Totally agree with you Bill.
This is the reason my 680 Konig was sold to someone in Australia and I have a box of bits i.e. a motomochec hub centre front end and swing arm lying in the shed

ps its for sale for a reasonable price

Dave Hutchens wrote:Thanks for the photo links very helpful, keep them coming anything is useful. sorry if ive caused a bit of a stir with it. Thanks Howard for the info on bump steer is very helpful especially to who ever I manage to get to pilot it when its finished. I have some photos some ware of the Renwick in the condition I received with the body work of, will upload soon any help is very much appreciated being a solo buff but a Konig freak

Dave, I suggest you source the information, from a person knowledgeable of how the Renwick actually works, so that you understand how to set it up correctly. before you let anyone pilot it. I have been told on good authority(quote) that Mr G. O'Dell, God Rest His Sole, inadvertently mounted the steering idler the wrong way round, which was the cause of some of his problems.
I too look forward to seeing your photos, and I would like to know where you propose to race it?