The Place

I'm not for one minute suggesting that the ACU handbook is ambiguous but depending on how you read it, it could be taken that classic sidecars do need oil containment now. They certainly do for the Pre TT Classic races.

steve-e wrote:It doesn't hold water but absorbs oil (how does it know?!)

http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M ... X4JRQ29Tgl

and we used to have people on here who stock it.

I bought a couple of boxes a while ago - still got plenty if anyone needs it...
http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M ... X4JRQ29Tgl

G JONES wrote:

steve-e wrote:It doesn't hold water but absorbs oil (how does it know?!)

http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M ... X4JRQ29Tgl

and we used to have people on here who stock it.

I bought a couple of boxes a while ago - still got plenty if anyone needs it...
http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M ... X4JRQ29Tgl

Cheers Gordon - what sort of price? Can you post? Is it per sheet?

Triplebrew wrote:Cheers Gordon - what sort of price? Can you post? Is it per sheet?

Need to look up the Invoice...
Yes
Yes
I'll get back to you later - got a few things to do at the moment...
(Spent the last couple of hours messing with internet connection - it was my Broadband connection down - only just got a connection)

Cheers Gordon. Will be needing for next meeting at end of month. Undertray is being made in next 2 weeks so have a bit of time. Thanks

Ian,
PM me your address, I'll send you a couple of sheets.
Nick

Picked up our new engine undertray today, it will be trimmed and fitted for Lydden.

I am 100% behind Eddy regarding oil containment and agree with all his other reasons for having it.I think the time has come for the ACU to devote a section of the Tech Regs in the handbook to classics solo and sidecars. I dont know where Jo Rowe has seen a section regarding classic sidecars I cannot find it. I contacted the Tech department at the ACU prior to the NEMCRC meeting at Croft on behalf of Ben Gray and the reply I received related to solo's.

I'll see if I can find it Dave. It came up in our Senior tech officials seminar back in February.

As has been pointed out there is no argument - we have to have oil containment of some sort on all classic sidecars. At present I have been telling people about 50% have some form of containment and at Lydden I think we will see more than 50% and, as I've said, next year we will have 100%.

Reference classic sidecars in the ACU rule book - I have spoken to Dr Paul King and many, many others - it doesn't exist. It does in folk lore because I too believed there was a section which basically said for classic/vintage rules contact relevant clubs, but I have never been able to find it. The ACU rules are basically drawn up for more modern sidecars. In the future we may need a meeting between the Classic club, the Vintage club and anyone else who runs classic sidecars to produce a more relevant set of regulations pertaining to classic sidecars that we can put forward to the ACU for verification, ratification and publication ( can't think of any more 'ations and three's probably more than enough!).

With all sidecars diapered the fickle finger of blame will have to point in somebody else's direction.

Ian

Ian, would it not be better to just come up with an agreed set of rules between the CRMC, BHR etc. and implement them ourselves, rather than involving the idiots in Rugby?

Ian,Ive been trying to get the Fsra Post Classic rep to do the same for us,Im concerned that sooner or later rules being implemented with modern sidecars in mind,maybe impossible to retro fit to older machines,this obviously includes classics etc as well.
Nick the problem is that you have to involve Rugby,if you run at a modern meeting,the scruteneers are used to modern machines,and they have a set of rules/guidelines from the ACU that they work to,if there are no seperate rules or guidelines for older machines,then they have to comply with modern rules.
In our meetings Im increasing coming up against scruteneers who insist on fairing in the sidecar wheel arch.Now I know its no big deal to do this,but,being a Post Classic we then just look like another F2,which makes it difficult to distinguish between us.

Also,I believe that if you run a Vintage,Classic or Post Classic,it should look like what was run in the relevant period,and the majority of outfits in the 70s and 80s run open wheelarch,be they front or rear exit.

This is only one example of a new rule affecting older machines,Im all for Oil containment,and also rain lights,but for example,ive read a set of guidelines for oil containment that require the whole of the btm 2 inches of the engine to be enclosed,holes for the gearlinkage etc must have rubber grommets/bellows fitted where they pass through the oil containment,and the hole for the chain has to have rubber curtains fitted.
Can you imagine having to fit that to a 70,s Windle,or a 60,s BMW?

The scruteneers need a set of guidelines regarding older machines for them to work to,or we will always be expected to comply with the current rules to the letter.

Tony: The CRMC use their own scrutineers who are immensely experienced at examining classic-era machines (we even have our own sidecar scrutineer, specially chosen as he doesn't need to bend down to look at them. God bless Reg!), and they bear in mind the issues with running machines of that kind. Apart from an overt obsession with numbers, they do an absolutley brilliant job. The ACU, however, have no interest in road racing in general, let alone classic bikes.

We fitted an undertray to our machine two years ago, long before most other people, but I fear that if the ACU get involved the constrainst put upon us will be onerous. For instance: a lot of classic bikes run separate gearboxes, so do we need oil containment under them? Dry sump solos, such as Manx's etc. do not need to run oil containment, my Imp is wet sump, but Ian's new one is dry sump..............who's going to make the call on that one??

Slightly different issue I know, but at the Manx Grand Prix now everything is expected to run with oil containment. I know I'm talking solos here but in this case the dry sump solos still need to have oil containment.

Sssh about the gear boxes, the ACU haven't sussed that one yet!

Piont taken Nick,I did race with the CRMC many years ago,and also the VMCC.However,some of your guys have been invited to modern meetings lately,and thus are subject to scruteneers who are unfamiler with these machines,and also if you enter the festival of sidecars.

Ian is right,its time to sit down with the ACU,and negotiate a set of guidelines for each period of the older machines,guidelines,which are both sympathetic to the machines,and which help make them a little safer.
The ACU have to realise that at the moment your club appears to have probably the fastest growing sidecar class in the country,and its bad for their bussiness to alleniate you by expecting you to modify your machines in an unrealistic way to conform to a set of rules written with modern machines in mind.

As for seperate gearbox containment,easy,full length undertray,front to back,and under the sidecar as well.It also protects brakelines,fuel lines/tanks and frame tubes,thats what Ive done on the TZ,and Ill be doing it on my new Commando outfit as well.Buy a big aluminium sheet from a autojumble,a big hammer,block of wood,tinsnips,and an afternoon,job done.

Im not having a go at scruteneers by the way,they have a job to do,and a set of guidelines to follow.