CRMC New Eligibility Rules

[steve-e]

Enough of the personal attacks please gents. This is about the third time this thread has nearly been locked down due to personal attacks (some thinner veiled than others).
As moderators we left it running as occasionally interesting thoughts were coming in and being debated.
If it degenerates into another public personal pop at each other, I'll have no problem in locking/moving the thread out of the way and banning people for a period. I know the other moderators are in agreement and have only left this running as I thought it interesting reading.

If you're going to have a pop at each other, there are PM and Email buttons on each user's profile.

It isn't pretty and puts both sides of any disagreement in a bad light to be acting like this in what is a fairly public area (not entirely public but still available to a lot of users to read).

Thank You All.

(Sorry Richard, I was typing this at the same time as you posted, this is not a response to yourself or Mike's last post).

[richard]

No problem Steve, I feel no animosity to any one I just think of it as a debate you would have in a pub

[steve-e]

It is almost the same Richard but not quite.
Imagine more, would you do it on stage with nearly 1000 people listening, most of who don't know the full circumstances but also have the opportunity to make misjudgements and join in if they wish. That's the bigger picture. I get PM's from people from all classes about what is going on in other areas on here along the lines of "have you seen what that lot are up to". Of course we have, I read 99% of the posts on here (just not the word games, Bob is in there often enough to look after that).

If you thought it was damaging to the Club to be bickering in front of 1000 people would you probably hold back more, or go to a quieter corner of the pub and roll your sleeves up

I'm not trying to kill the thread as I do find the technical side interesting, it is a good thing to see being debated, it's when it gets to a personal attack level that it gets awkward.

I'm sure we've all seen it on other forums (and occasionally here til we get hold of it and stun it, usually before there's a report on it) and remarked how unfriendly the place is to be. You sound like myself, go to a pub for a debate, not to be attacked or insulted.

It's not the real world. It's a reality distortion field.

[Triplebrew]

It is a shame this thread has gone the way it has. I think it would have been very, very bad if development was stopped. The influx of new machines has got to be good for the sport? As someone who tried their very best to keep running an 'orginal' outfit (one that was built in the period - around 1968 - 1971) but had to call it a day when the engines perfomance overtook the chassis ability the only option to keep racing our prefered engine was to have anew chassis built. This of course is fully within the eligibilty rules and through choice will be on 10" wheels.
Can we all stop taking chunks out of each other and all pull in the same direction to put on the best racing we can and all help Ian 'sidecarbloke' Johnson's unenvialble job as easy and unstressful as possible?
Roll on Mallory Park - its going to be a great weekend to a great season for CRMC sidecar racing.

[steve-e]

Pull chunks out of each other all you like, but out of the public view would be better I did offer to set up an area for CRMC members only (I wouldn't be able to see it then but hey, you and/or Ian could've moderated) but was told no need. Prove that right

[richard]

It was that development that killed the class a few years ago, The riders that ran the triumphs and Norton's and the like stopped racing, because they found there outfits out classed and started to leave for the vintage club and never came back.

[steve-e]

Has anyone thought where it will be in 10 years from now? When Dad was doing CRMC (when Bobert was eligibility bloke early 80's) it was simpler, the small wheels were classics and the bigger wheels were generally vintage if all 3 were big. A bit vague but I was young then Now times have changed, you can't really have original 50 year old machines racing can you or do they? What has to be original? If you can't get the original tyres what is allowed in place? If you can't buy 35 year old spark plugs what do you use?

It is obviously a minefield, and this thread has been really interesting on that front. Ian (from an outsiders viewpoint) seems to have done well at keeping things as close as possible but everyone is going to have a differing opinion as to what is and is not allowed. Dad could have used electronic RITA ignition on the NSU for a little while ( when he was running a GT750 in the modern class) without any bother. He had it kind of sussed on the GT, cut the black plastic disc out of the middle of a revolution wheel cover into a roundish shape and put a slot in it. But that's not classic is it?

I don't envy anyone who tries to keep all sides in agreement, let alone happy with it.

[Triplebrew]

That is exactly the problem Steve as Grant and myself found out. It is great racing 'original' stuff but there comes a point when it is near impossible or indeed safe to do so. There are always those who will push / break rules but that comes in all sports. The onus should be on the individual to ensure that their machine is within the rules. Our new bike will conform fully with all the rules and we hope will show what can be done along with other 'new' classics that are on the grid. Each year that passes 'original' outfits get older and begin to suffer from age if nothing else. The tubes deteriorate, cracks appear etc. etc. Eventually you reach a point where a tough decision has to be made. Also to remain competative changes happen. I don't care what anyone says none wants to just ride round for a few laps - we all want to win or at leat try to!

[steve-e]

If you're not there to race you do what RP does, take it for parade laps. He's braver than you lot on that thing of his.

How long til he finds this? Come on RP.. I'm counting

[Triplebrew]

If you're not there to race you do what RP does, take it for parade laps. He's braver than you lot on that thing of his.

How long til he finds this? Come on RP.. I'm counting

Hey dont be mean! I would love to have a go on Roly's outfit - it is beautiful. Wonder if he would let me and Grant race it? What do you reckon Steve?

[petercaughlin]

I am afraid that at the end of the day this situation is unsolveable there will always be people who want to win at all costs and will interperet/bend the rules to suit this will always annoy the people who wish to stick to the idea of racing something as was in the day, I have seen this in all forms of so called classic/vintage competition, 35 years ago I was riding pre 65 trials and a member of the North Kent Trials Combine then the smart money who want an edge found out that some one had used Ceriani forks on a comp AJS so started the rot then it was hiding Honda internals in your forks, gas shocks etc etc so I now have a genuine 1959 350 Works Replica Royal Enfield in my garage,completely unadulterated but unless you want to come last,lose a load of marks and possibly hurt yourself you`d be a mug to ride it in a present pre 65 trial,the same goes for a 1939 Ariel trialler which does`nt have the butchered frame, radial 18" tyres,and modern engine internals,
Why do people want to race a period machine and then try to modernise it ? If you use the "logical progression" argument then the logical progression of a classic outfit is obviously either a F1 or F2.
Cant we race stuff thats built within the period rules, at least then we`d know that the winners did it with skill and talent and we`d give them the due credence not bitch and moan because we know that "some" are doing it outside the"spirit of the sport" by using whatever edge they can by "bending" the rules.
But I already know the answer its not going to change so I`ll carry on doing what I love to do,racing old rubbish in the company of like minded people who wish to preserve our sport,I feel really sorry for "Sidecar Bloke" he must feel like a football manager,cant please anybody any of the time.
Anyway back to the garage to work on the old nail, another season across La Manche beckons, funnily enough they are more interested in preserving it the old ways than we are,
As Dick Hawes so aptly puts it "Yours in Sport"

[richard]

Well said Peter, I really enjoyed reading that

[steve-e]

Exactly the predicament I see as an outsider.

[petercaughlin]

Exactly the predicament I see as an outsider.

I dont really see it as a predicament, its just as easy to build a"brand new" classic within the rules as it is to build one outside the rules,possibly the Formula 3 500cc car boys have it right its got to be right or you cant use it

[richard]

The very problem I had ,you get branded a right old git by not letting rider progress with the parts they want to use and that was my reply it is not eligible so you cannot use it