Konny and Konig engines

[Simon Smith]

I would like to see a P1/P2 race and a separate P3/P4 race at the CRMC. Will need to get rid of the post classic proddie solo classes first though.

[Bob B]

Seems a sound idea to me Simon.

Ducks behind parapet, removes beret, dons tin hat, Nomex underwear and flak jacket ...

[G JONES]

WTF? Cut off date 1989? Forgive my naivety but how the hell does that relate to 1969/72? Might as well throw the eligibility rule book out and 'run wot yer brung'

Quite right Bob - while I can almost understand the RS125 / MT being considered eligible (they are "race" bikes) although not sure about classic - I can't for the life of me understand why a "Road bike" like the the FZ600's and FJ1200's can even come close to being what I would call a race bike - and even though they are Yamaha - classic race bike ???

[richard]

With ref to Simons post. the classes in the sidecars were changed hoping that P1 would grow and have there own race and then P2&P3 have theres, The P4 's were only brought in to fill the grid after some in the committee wanting to scrap the sidecars all together as there only six or seven at a meeting, The P4's never took off the and the chance to have the 350's to run in the club was because of the tyre's,The problem is there are to many classes in the solos this has always been the case, at the next committee meeting maybe Ian can push this.

[gatekeeper]

so where do i stand with a suzuki 750 two stroke outfit then

[steve-e]

In the corner til you learn your lesson

[richard]

but are pointy hats A.C.U approved,

[tonybsa2008]

Ian,750 two stroke outfit,easy you race in the FSRA classic/350 series.Then you can run what wheels and tryes you like,rear or front exit,and any carbs that you wish,brakes-only restriction is 2 pistons per caliper.If you want more info,id be happy to oblige,or speak to Stuart Mellor at Martek,hes the eligibility officer.
The problem with the classic club,is they took on the forgoten racing solos classes,and this has meant less track time for PROPER classic bikes,including the sidecars.Now that the forgotten era/post classic classes want to expand,the club has an even bigger problem.

[mervnoble]

Marvellous, marvellous things these forums - by tapping a few keys you can send information all over the world, whether it's true or false.

Howard's initial posting:- "after looking today at the new Konny engine it is clearly not a replica of the original Konig engine. It is very different in many ways, including appearance - because of this it is most unlikely to be eligiible for either classic or post classic racing."

If Howard is correct and it does look vastly different then he is absolutely correct and my discussions with Howard, on the phone, were obviously not completely wasted. IanW's reply is also spot on - I don't know what the Forgotten Era regulations state but I do know that in the Classic Club the internals are basically "free" but the outside must, from a short distance away, appear the same as the original.

Howard's next post:- "when I decided to build a Konig outfit to race with the Classic Club I contacted them and told them of my intention....." This is wholly false - the outfit that Howard had constructed is a thing of beauty but sadly when he built it he appears to have built it to HIS specification rather than any club rules.

The next paragraph "after completing the machine............" is pure fantasy. Howard did send me clippings from a 1966 Motorcycle magazine where it mentioned an outfit in Germany using a Konig. Konig's started buiilding engines in 1925 and have built some 250 variations. The Konig sidecar engine as we know it, with heavy involvement from Kim Newcombe, did not appear before our 1967 cut-off datge for 2-strokes. So, as Howard says in his initial posting, the engine does not replicate that which was used in the 1966 machine. A comparison would be that in the Classic Club you can use a 750cc single overhead cam Honda - but what you cannot use is a Fireblade engine - well Honda's were used in the period so I thought I'd use this one - wrong!

The initial eligibility application form was sent with a photograph absolutely side on. The Classic Club has rules regarding rim and tyre size which the paperwork confirmed it had. However, if you see photos of the outfit from the rear or the front the wheels are way, way too wide. I did offer Howard, before we discovered the wheels were incorrect, eligibility to run in our Post Classic Period 4 class. He wasn't interested - he wanted Period 3 classic. Because at that time I didn't know as much about Konigs as I do now I offered him temporary (twelve months) eligiblity (still unaware of the wheel issue) - this giving me time to sort the facts and figures out. No attempt to enter a race meeting was ever made although the outfit was seen in the paddock on occasion. After sending the temporary eligibility I was never contacted again.

If you refer to Tony Wheatley's statement that the Classic Club is anti 2-stroke this too is complete rubbish. I have, over the last year been pressurising a certain gentleman to bring out a twin-engined Cressent. I love the diversity of engines and chassis that appeared in the period and would welcome any type of outfit that is built to the rules, whatever the engine.

Please, if you are going to support someone's views on the forum make sure that he's not leading you up the garden path.

Ian Johnson
CRMC Eligibility Officer

P.S. I've left out the threats of legal action that were made if I didn't grant eligibility as I don't wish to inflame the situation. I'd like to emphasise that these threats were not made by Howard but a supporter of his cause.

Mr Johnson,

If I wanted to race a 2 stroke sidecar with your club which engine should I buy? Hopefully your response will be as clear as my question. Thanks in advance,

Merv Noble

[Wal]

Probably a Scott sorry Merv couldn't resist it

Or a 4 cylinder Ariel Arrow as the late great Bill Boddice did in the 60’s

[ianw]

WTF? Cut off date 1989? Forgive my naivety but how the hell does that relate to 1969/72? Might as well throw the eligibility rule book out and 'run wot yer brung'

Totally agree with Bob, moving the cut off date was the demise of The Forgotten Era Racing Club, we had grids with reserves like the Classic Club, the grids were made up of a lot of Classic guys & Classic registered outfits.
The Jap multis were then allowed in, GS1000 etc, couldn't do much against them with a BSA A65
Then the dreaded TZ750 were allowed in, suicidal.
Re one of my earlier posts, leave the Classic regs well alone, all it takes is a vote to let ineligible ( post 1972 cut off ) engines in the class & the flood gates will be open.
Post Classic is dying a death, the Krausers & ADM's will be in there next.
Do as the originators of Classic Racing & Forgotten Era Racing did, start your own class & approach Racing Clubs & try to get them to give you a separate race

[richard]

merv dont get a saab, I had hair and I was known to smile.

[Wal]

So, must be the end of this tread as Dick has just ‘warped’ us back to page one !! or shall we go round one more time

[richard]

please dont as the nights are so dark and long.and i'll have to sit and talk to the wife.

[RARING TO GO]

If we allow this thread to go back to the begining we may be supprised at how some people may change what they have said in the past, so let it roll along.
BTW Gate keeper I have a brand new in the box unused 1963 Crescent engine.