renwick konig

[Bill Lymburn]

(Quote

Totally agree with you Bill.
This is the reason my 680 Konig was sold to someone in Australia and I have a box of bits i.e. a motomochec hub centre front end and swing arm lying in the shed

ps its for sale for a reasonable price[/quote]

LCR1000, that is another effect of ruling out these engines and chassis, it renders them worthless in this country, whilst the outfits allowed to race appreciate extra-ordinarilly(Don't know how to spell this word-help). Much to the joy of the CRMC members.

[steve-e]

I would think that not being eligible to race with the CRMC doesn't make the machines 'worthless'. They're still beautiful machines in their own right, and can still be raced somewhere. Just need to find out where - see my new post in this section on exactly that subject.

[Bob B]

For post classic and banned period classic bikes have a look at France

[petercaughlin]

it seems that people are being advised to ask someone who knows how to set up a Renwick,why not ask old Johners himself, he`s only in Burgess Hill and has always been very helpfull to me and other people in setting up sidecars,also with regard to the "modern/replica classics" using modern stuff I agree that as far as possible period stuff should be used,I`ve nearly finshed a Honda built my own frame, used Girlings on the front and a Mini rubber at the back,cant get much more period,but then I dont expect to win or beat the "cheque book classes"

Merrry Christmas and a safe New Year to all

[Bill Lymburn]

Love it Peter!!

[dick hawes]

When you hold a wheel from the side with two wishbones you either end up with bump steer or rollsteer.There is no option.
The only way you can minimise it is to adjust the links to work through an arc each side of the minimum, and
have less suspension movement than you would like.
The only hub centre that worked perfectly was the difazio system as used by Bill Cooper
Trevor Ireson built the ultimate wishbone fitted long bike in the late 80's but his innovative geometry was soon
seen and copied.
Gerry and Nick Boret were in my opinion one of the bravest crews, when they rode the Renwick Koinig at the TT.
They had an incident at Kerrumoor and also spun it flat out through Hillberry.
John Renwick had total faith in his design and even stood in as passenger with Gerry at the Silverstone International
for the Sunday race after Nick was injured in a first lap multiple crash in the Saturday caused by Gerry's outfit spinning.
The Boret/Renwick team brought a public relations boost to the sidecar scene with their very professional approach,
quickly followed by George O.Dell, Bill Hodgekins, Dick Creasley and others.
Suddenly we sidecar brigade were not the poor relations to the solos.

[Bill Lymburn]

Good stuff, Dick. We definitely need a book from you, for us and for our descendants. Let's all share your experiences Mr Sidecar Racing. However, for my point at the moment, you agree that Renwick and Konig and the Borets are a major part of sidecar history and therefore should be included in our current classic scene to commemorate their achievements. What you say about the geometry of their outfit has merit and I certainly won't argue with you, which you probably rightly say caused them problems. Wasn't that what pioneering was all about and they were there doing it. Pushing the envelope along with John Renwick, Tony Foale and Rudi Kurth. Let's celebrate these guys.

[Bill Lymburn]

It just came to me that I saw an outfit, I think it was at Silloth in the early '70s with a Reliant front end on it, that should have been a fairly easy conversion, how many more of these were about? I think the one I saw had a small BMC engine in it.

[Simon Smith]

Hi Bill,

When I bought my first outfit the grid was down to 3. The Chairman at the time wrote to me to say that if things didn't pick up by the beginning of the next season the class would be scrapped. We had already spent over £10k on a class that very soon might not exist!

A lot of people worked very hard to make the class successful. With this in mind please understand our reluctance to change the rules. To say that we've 'changed or bent them to suit yourselves' is a little offensive when the reality was change or die.

I really hope you find somewhere to race your outfit and I would love to see you racing with us. But we have to be very careful not to spoil what we have achieved and a major rule change like this could potentially have a negative impact.

Simon

We could change the rules but we don't want to.

We're quiet happy as things are.

Absolutely, Simon I agree with you, you don't want to change the rules. You've changed or bent them enough to suit yourselves with your conventional outfits to get the best out of them. What, with 13" wheels, modern racing suspension units when the original replacement type are still available for road bikes as we had to use in period, and I could go on. I've nothing against repro frames, as long as they are of the period, I've nothing against replacing non available parts with an approved equivalent, but I have something against outfits of the period that you will not let race against you!!

[666]

There were several outfits in the 60's using 13" wheels, one of them being Dave Bishop who had a lot of good scraps with Derek Jones (Crazy Horse) on his 1000Vin in the late 60's The tube used for chassis hasn't changed we still use Reynolds 531, 4130 which is from USA, both of which are chrome molybdenum, Brown Bros T45which is carbon manganese, CDS which is seamless cold drawn mild steel. There have been several people that have said that some chassis have been built using F2 technology ,the only thing i think these folk can mean is W/Base Track S/Car Wheel lead etc, or maybe the use of folded sheet section's or similar,it has all been done in period,even hub centre steering in 1964 was the first I have seen racing

[richard]

Hi every one and a good x.mas to all. Bump steer is caused when the steering arm is of a different length to the suspention arms. As the suspenion moves thought this arc the longer or shorter the steering arm is it will cause the wheel to move in or out even though the steering is not turned, if you look at the picture of the bike you will see that the steering arm is longer and this will cause bump steer. Hope that helps

[Bill Lymburn]

Hi Bill,

When I bought my first outfit the grid was down to 3. The Chairman at the time wrote to me to say that if things didn't pick up by the beginning of the next season the class would be scrapped. We had already spent over £10k on a class that very soon might not exist!

A lot of people worked very hard to make the class successful. With this in mind please understand our reluctance to change the rules. To say that we've 'changed or bent them to suit yourselves' is a little offensive when the reality was change or die.

I really hope you find somewhere to race your outfit and I would love to see you racing with us. But we have to be very careful not to spoil what we have achieved and a major rule change like this could potentially have a negative impact.

Simon

Hi! Simon, I fully appreciate all the good work put in by CRMC members to get the series off the ground and get it working as well as it is and under no circumstances would I want to spoil that in any way. I don't see how the rule changes I would propose could have any negative impact, but then I don't have the inside knowledge you have. I would like to know what you think this negative impact could be. I'm sorry if I've caused offence by what I said but the use of modern performance items cannot be denied in some quarters, possibly not including yourself. Anyway Steve has pointed me in the direction of the FRSA as possibly being the more appropriate club to be pursuing rather than the CRMC. By the way I do not have an outfit to race, I'm 72years old and permanently disabled and wheelchair bound. I'm motivated by the few who have these British historic outfits with nowhere to race them, and by the great men who designed and built them getting the recognition they deserve for pushing the envelope in the period.
By the way I took offence at your earlier Quote "We're quite happy as things are", and may not have responded as vociferously without it. I took what you said to mean "We don't care".

Let's keep it friendly Simon, like yourself I love sidecars!!
Bill.

We could change the rules but we don't want to.

We're quiet happy as things are.

Absolutely, Simon I agree with you, you don't want to change the rules. You've changed or bent them enough to suit yourselves with your conventional outfits to get the best out of them. What, with 13" wheels, modern racing suspension units when the original replacement type are still available for road bikes as we had to use in period, and I could go on. I've nothing against repro frames, as long as they are of the period, I've nothing against replacing non available parts with an approved equivalent, but I have something against outfits of the period that you will not let race against you!!