The Place

You know it makes me sad to hear someone like Bruce say he cant be arsed anymore Having know him for a few years I saw what passion he had for the TT and f2 sidecar racing in general.
Having read a lot of posts he is not the only one that is loosing the motivation to get out there and race.
To pick up on Bruce's point about if he was to passenger for someone else he would have to get six signatures with that driver to be able to do the TT ,what would happen if a regular team passenger did not want to do the TT but the driver did ? would the team have to have two passengers, one for TT and one for the championship races !! No what happens is the team would break up
My point is that the whole thing about getting enough signatures has only one effect to break up good teams and stop top TT riders form going to do what they were born to do!!!!
Just as the sidecars are having a massive upturn in fortune thanks to people like David Stewart

six signatures with that driver to be able to do the TT

It can be with any driver as long as its 6 signatures

Defending the six signature rule, personaly I see this as a good thing for both the set up and development of the kit and the preperation of the riders. If you are a regular TT team you get one signature if you have qualified and one more if you have finished a race, giving you a possible two of the six needed. So only four more good meetings needed to obtain a mountain course license, five if you have a mare that year. Teams new to the TT will need to do the six which when you consider that the Mountain Course is the most demaning place on the planet that sidecars & solo's alke can pit their wit's against the clock, is a bargain! It is simply a bit of a hoop that we have to jump through so the box's get ticked, and we get to play, result.
Any rule that means that I have to go racing works well with me.

When I started in the 80's you needed an International or one event international to do the TT, to get the one event licence you had to gain 10 points at national events in the previouse years, I think it was two but not sure. Riders used to do the Southern and Scarborough in the year before their first TT as it was easier to get score at these meetings as points went down to 10th place. I can even remember a rider doing Jurby Rd meeting the weekend before TT practice started to get his last points and 2 riders pulling over to let him get the required points. Then for some reason the ACU decided yoiu could ride on a National licence, so in a way they brought this issue on themselves.
My main complaint is the inconsistacy of the present system. Two races at the southern on two seperate days only count as one signature, the same as a 6 lap wander round Jurby airfield at the back of the field with a newcomer passenger gets one signature, doh

This is developing into a thread about the TT licence, but my problem is that people are not coming to the TT even when I know they have more than enough signatures.
What I want to find out is: why do they not want to try the TT?
What, if anything would get them to come and have a look and maybe have a go?
For some it is the only thing that matters, for others it seems to be the opposite... I'm trying to analyse that... do we still want a TT... or is it just drivers who want it?

Helen,,i would as said before,love to race the TT,but now the system has got beyond me,i love and live for the TT,just not interested in the hassle to get there,and im sure the same for alot of riders/passengers,i.e,Lars Schwartz,Alan ,Mick Thompson,Tappo,the list is endless,suppose i now fall into the category of "holiday Racer"
the shortage of passengers is because the sport is to expensive,an example is my son Ashley,19,wants to be a passenger but has limited funds,and really would like to race including the TT,there is no way in for the average jo on the streets,the nearest he can get is £20 taxi rides ,i feel so sorry for him and others that just have the ability but no funding and no way into sidecar racing,gone are the days when you can put an advert in MCN to be a sidecar passenger and a week later be at cadwell on an F2 like i did,now its a day of work to attened an ACU training day before you start etc etc,its just a ballache,enough said.

No Bruce, not 'enough said'. Anyone can get into racing, even sidecars if theyre a bit odd.

Helen Gibson wrote:What I want to find out is: why do they not want to try the TT?

Picking up on your specific point - the one very great obstacle to anyone wanting to "try" the TT - is that it just costs a lot more than many are able to spend - especially when they may not be sure whether it's for them - if I had never done the TT - not sure I would want to take that chance of spending all that money - not knowing if it was to my taste...
I think things are different these days - most of us old geezers went over to watch the TT & MGP when we were younger - did a few laps on our road bikes - and knew we would want to come back someday...
The TT was an accepted aim for a lot of us back then - it had World championship status - there were all the classes - solo & sidecar - all the top riders of the day - all the works Grand Prix teams etc, etc, - just wonder if there is now a lot more "other" exciting things for young guys to do these days - of course the "older guys" still want to do it - but for the reasons already stated - cannot....
I won't ever do the TT again because I cannot ride my choice of machine - still - no great loss...

I went to the TT many moons ago for the 1st time (with what ended up to be my brother in law ) as a spectator when i was 17 /18.
I had such a craic and vowed then that one day i would race there.
Luckily for me i can say i did.
I would gladly race there again, nothing in the world can possibly give you the same thrill as bray hill !!!! but amongst other reasons finance was the reason for me to stop.
It is something you will either love or loathe but to find this out and let someone down has got to be the worst feeling for anyone.

I'd like to throw in another point for consideration. How much does it cost to do 6 meetings? I'll take a rough guess at minimally £1500 -2,000, probably more. That is 2 grand less to spend on preparing your outfit for the TT. That's an engine (or two) that has more miles on it etc.
Much of this forum is taken up with discussion about racing being too expensive, how to make engines last longer at the TT and the falling numbers at the TT. Well, maybe there's part of the answer. Also, bear in mind the money and time constraints. If you have a bad, expensive TT (motor blow-ups etc) you may not race again that year. That leaves a relatively short time in the following year to get the required 'signatures'. Factor-in the general economic situation, job losses, no overtime and rising fuel costs etc, and it's not difficult to see the problems. And yet, despite all the above, it seems we are hell-bent on making it more expensive and difficult to do the one meeting that most of us look forward to more than any other.
Greasley, Rollason, Cap Davies etc all seemed to manage just racing once a year. In the past, the likes of Moly didn't always do a lot of racing.
I appreciate we are stuck with this ludicrous requirement and, in an ideal world, we maybe should do more racing than just once a year. However, when finances become marginal, which meeting do you really want to do? The TT or 4 Darley Moors? I seriously suggest this is major factor and it may well lead to the demise of sidecar racing at the TT.

Nail on the head imho

SPOT ON !

realroadracer wrote:I'd like to throw in another point for consideration. How much does it cost to do 6 meetings? I'll take a rough guess at minimally £1500 -2,000, probably more. That is 2 grand less to spend on preparing your outfit for the TT. That's an engine (or two) that has more miles on it etc.
Much of this forum is taken up with discussion about racing being too expensive, how to make engines last longer at the TT and the falling numbers at the TT. Well, maybe there's part of the answer. Also, bear in mind the money and time constraints. If you have a bad, expensive TT (motor blow-ups etc) you may not race again that year. That leaves a relatively short time in the following year to get the required 'signatures'. Factor-in the general economic situation, job losses, no overtime and rising fuel costs etc, and it's not difficult to see the problems. And yet, despite all the above, it seems we are hell-bent on making it more expensive and difficult to do the one meeting that most of us look forward to more than any other.
Greasley, Rollason, Cap Davies etc all seemed to manage just racing once a year. In the past, the likes of Moly didn't always do a lot of racing.
I appreciate we are stuck with this ludicrous requirement and, in an ideal world, we maybe should do more racing than just once a year. However, when finances become marginal, which meeting do you really want to do? The TT or 4 Darley Moors? I seriously suggest this is major factor and it may well lead to the demise of sidecar racing at the TT.

bruce moore wrote:Helen,,i would as said before,love to race the TT,but now the system has got beyond me,i love and live for the TT,just not interested in the hassle to get there,and im sure the same for alot of riders/passengers,i.e,Lars Schwartz,Alan ,Mick Thompson,Tappo,the list is endless,suppose i now fall into the category of "holiday Racer"
the shortage of passengers is because the sport is to expensive,an example is my son Ashley,19,wants to be a passenger but has limited funds,and really would like to race including the TT,there is no way in for the average jo on the streets,the nearest he can get is £20 taxi rides ,i feel so sorry for him and others that just have the ability but no funding and no way into sidecar racing,gone are the days when you can put an advert in MCN to be a sidecar passenger and a week later be at cadwell on an F2 like i did,now its a day of work to attened an ACU training day before you start etc etc,its just a ballache,enough said.

Ballache !!!! Bloody hell Bruce , are you for real . The lad is 19 and keen to race and before he even starts your complaining about having to attend an ACU course etc etc ( your words ) When we started and i wasnt the only one , we scratched and saved and begged and borrowed to go racing ,things are a bit tight for everyone right now but if you really want to fullfill your dreams you sometimes have to make sacrifices .

i would no way stand in my sons way to race sidecars, have you any idea what its like not to be able to help him ,i would have loved to have had the chance to race with him from the start,he's already hooked and will race what ever,infact he has got his ACU course booked for the 12th Feb,i will support where i can and hopefully some of my experience will rub off on him,i just dont want him to get in the financial trap i fell in at such an early age.He will make someone a good passenger,pity not for me(as yet)

AL wrote:

bruce moore wrote:Helen,,i would as said before,love to race the TT,but now the system has got beyond me,i love and live for the TT,just not interested in the hassle to get there,and im sure the same for alot of riders/passengers,i.e,Lars Schwartz,Alan ,Mick Thompson,Tappo,the list is endless,suppose i now fall into the category of "holiday Racer"
the shortage of passengers is because the sport is to expensive,an example is my son Ashley,19,wants to be a passenger but has limited funds,and really would like to race including the TT,there is no way in for the average jo on the streets,the nearest he can get is £20 taxi rides ,i feel so sorry for him and others that just have the ability but no funding and no way into sidecar racing,gone are the days when you can put an advert in MCN to be a sidecar passenger and a week later be at cadwell on an F2 like i did,now its a day of work to attened an ACU training day before you start etc etc,its just a ballache,enough said.

Ballache !!!! brooodily hell Bruce , are you for real . The lad is 19 and keen to race and before he even starts your complaining about having to attend an ACU course etc etc ( your words ) When we started and i wasnt the only one , we scratched and saved and begged and borrowed to go racing ,things are a bit tight for everyone right now but if you really want to fullfill your dreams you sometimes have to make sacrifices .

Thats great Bruce , the sport needs some young blood to keep it alive , i wish him all the best and hope he enjoys it as well as we did