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Quote from Dick Hawes "What really matters is that the sport should be the winner." Says it all

I'll go along with that Bob.

So would I.

So after all this debate, will Howards bike & also the Konny / Konig engine be allowed to race at Classic Club meetings?

ianw wrote:So after all this debate, will Howards bike & also the Konny / Konig engine be allowed to race at Classic Club meetings?

I do not think it matters one way or another for us, Europe will welcome us and that is what I had them built for. It would be nice to do some races here especially for ACE.

Sorry Michel, what is ACE? (numptie here )

If Howard has the acceptable tyres as per classic club regulations. Then I can see no reason why he should not be able to race with the CRMC.

steve-e wrote:Sorry Michel, what is ACE? (numptie here )

ACE is Dick Hawes

Bah humbug - Mr Grumpy here; and sadly I'm about to p... on your parade.

Dick wrote "what really matters is that sport should be the winner" and Bob B supported him as probably did many others. But really in our heart of hearts do we truly believe that this great sport of ours would be as strong as it is today if we had no rules. We have Vintage, Classic, Post Classic, 350 guys, F2's and F1's. Something and somewhere for everybody to enjoy.

Nigh on 30 years ago a man with a passion and a vision for his sport wrote a set of rules for the Classic Club. He was followed by a string of volunteers who did their best to adhere to this man's vision.

Now if we look at the 2012 CRMC sidecar season (that's the one I know best) we had full grids, plus reserves at every round. Silverstone in October, our Race of the Year, even after a hard-fought season, we had 37 outfits on the grid, and this was without many regulars; and this is purely down to one man's vision and foresight to provide a clear set of rules that would last the test of time.

Here comes the party pooper bit...

Sadly, no, the Konig/Konny cannot run as a Classic. If I was to win the lottery this weekend I would be forced to order a Konny to have on my mantlepiece - you can keep your unmade beds and cows in gundge - that is a piece of art!

If you look at http://www.quincylooperracing.us and click on qcyvkonig it makes interesting reading and will give you the history of the Konig with photos. Also you can go to http://www.ozebook.com/konig.htm which talks about Kim Newcombe and his Konig development, which started when he went to Germany in 1969 to meet with Mr Dieter Konig.

Four stroke motors in the CRMC have a cut off date of 1972 - two strokes 1967. So Tony Wheatley could be correct that we are biased against two-strokes - the club was set up to race old British iron and European iron when the Japanese started world domination with their two-strokes. However, any two stroke or four stroke built before their relevant cut off dates is equally welcome.

There is a slight get out clause in that my predecessor, in an attempt to boost the grid size, was forced to introduce a Period 4 class. This class was used when the Honda's were found to be running the CR carbs in violation of the Classic rules, which was possibly my fault for not knowing the rules well enough, but at least it gave them somewhere to run. It does also allow the Club to run machines that fall slightly outside the rules but would add that certain something to the racing; the Sylvester Suzuki is a prime example. You cannot build a bike to the Period 4 rules, but if you have a machine that is slightly out, you approach the eligibility Officer saying you have said machine that would enhance the diversity and general experience of the meeting. He will then take the case to the management committee and it is they who say "yea" or "nay". It won't receive Classic eligibility but Period 4 eligibility.

So, I'm sorry if I've upset anybody - I could say it's Bob's fault but in reality I would like to thank him, because without people like him we wouldn't be sat here discussing the different genres of sidecar.

Merry Christmas to you all. Whatever you race - enjoy!

Ian

maybe its time to move the cut off dates to 74 and 70

Ian - thank you for your very generous and kind comments!

I appreciate the difficulties that the club faces with eligibility and that people are keen to hopefully run machinery that they own but as you say rules are rules and must be adhered to otherwise there would be anarchy.

The original idea that Alan Cathcart and Dick Linton had was to be able to run machinery competitively alongside similar bikes - the very thought of an extra wheel did not originally enter into their reckoning. Along came Keith 'Woody' Woodard closely followed by myself, we said 'Oi, wot no chairs?', thus the sidecar class was created.

At this point the basic ground rules had already been set by the co-founders. The cut off dates were chosen, the two stroke date was to allow British and other strokers to race against four strokes competitively but the advent of the TD2 Yamaha particularly was such a revolution because these things at 250cc were annihilating 500cc four strokes. No imagination is needed therefore to gauge the impact on the then current 250cc class - for those of us who actually witnessed these machines it was truly incredible in the real meaning of the word. Thus the rules were set immutably.

I appreciate that there will always be disputes as to what was used when but rules are the rules.

I support Dick's remark that "what really matters is that sport should be the winner" because I firmly believe that sentiment. However I feel that I should add a rider to that remark - 'provided that the rules are honestly and fairly applied by clubs and adhered to by competitors - then sport will truly be the winner no matter what class of racing it should be.

Ian, pardon me for asking but, what’s wrong with taking a leaf out of the European book and running five classes (normally in two races) as they do ?
1. 750cc Sitters
2. 750cc kneelers
3. Over 750cc
4. Post Classic
5. GP Class

I know there is probably something very British about ‘doing it our way’ but you have to admit, the European system does work very well in that:

a. It allows flexibility in class combinations to have full grids no matter how many (ish) of each class show up.
b. Gives everybody a ride no matter what they are on.

Just sayin’

I like that suggestion Wal.

gatekeeper wrote:maybe its time to move the cut off dates to 74 and 70

Stagnation is bad for the soul Ian.
I wonder what the classic masses would say if given the chance to vote on 2 strokes?

Ah ! love 2 strokes

Anyway Michel, you know what they say about 4 strokes . . . . .
Anything that doesn't fire every stroke . . . . is just a misfiring engine !