I reproduce the article proving that Konigs were raced in sidecars prior to the C.R.M.C. cut off date of 31/12/1967. It clearly shows the versatile B-Class 4 cylinder engine, the same as I have in my bike. This engine was the biggest leap forward in Konig's development history. Some of the big advantages were that the crankshafts were supplied to Konig by Hoekle; the pistons by Mahle; and that it has the facility to mount the disc valve on the left or right hand side.
Contrary to popular belief, the crankcases were not porous; the water ingress problems were due to the lack of a proper seal between the liners and the cylinder block.
As I requested in my last post, could Ian please explain why he deems my bike to be ineligible ?
Firstly I would like to say that I personally think Ian does a great job for classic sidecar racing within the CRMC and does his very best to be supportive, open minded and encouraging to promote what is a fantastic field of sidecars within the club.
That said, talking of cut off dates etc, if we continue to maintain all of the original cut off dates set by the club founders will we not eventually effectively become the Vintage racing club due to the age of machinery being governed by the said cut off dates? Just a thought!
well iv'e seen one of these konny motor's at dave cheeseman's who is buiding a outfit for mike snow now there's a name that go's back and i think they are a thing of beauty like a bmw low centre of gravity just asking to go into a sidecar chassis get real why argue the pro's and con's wether they are the right year or colour or whatever stop being negative and think if it look's right it usually is right
In reply to Terry's post.
Vintage will always be Vintage.
Classic will always be Classic.
Post Classic will die a death as did it's fore runner, Forgotten racing, because they have let the TZ750's into the class.
The class will evolve again with the TZ's but with them most probably allowing the GP 2 Strokes in then the Long bikes.
This is the class that will keep moving.
Vintage & Classic should be left well alone, look at their grids, with reserves!
Please refer to my previous post, just because some one has a bike & there is no class for it, it should not mean that another Class / Club has automatically got to change their rules to accommodate them.
I didn't hear Gary Golder shouting that there was no class for his bike, he entered what class was available.
After reading Howards MCN article, I don't envy the person who is going to tell him that his Konig is still banned from the classic Club.
Last edited by ianw on Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I agree with Ian Ws comments,however Id like to piont out Ian,that the big Tzs are now self regulating becuase of the expense of actually purchasing one(we were lucky,we bought ours when nobody wanted them)and if you look at the FSRA classic championship results this year the first 4 positions were all 4 strokes,the last time a TZ won was Greg in 2010.
Totally agree with Ian W's comments. The TZs ruined racing for many clubmen and I would hate to see it happen again.
At one TOMCC Lydden meeting when there were more TZs than other machinery entered I suggested to Stan Mellish, ACU Steward for the day, that rather than causing anymore expense that we should all rush down to the startline when the flag dropped and present current bank balances, the one with the biggest overdraft to be declared the winner. For some reason that was not terribly well received ...
It is true about the sidecar family - you can stop racing but you can never, ever leave!
purely from an outsider,looking in,seems that Howard has got a just argument !
if Mr.Konig or the manufacturer can say they were before the cut off date surely theres no confusion !
Mr Langham, Your Sidecar was ineligible because of the Wheels and TYRE Width, not the Engine. I Remember the Photos You had on this Site many months ago.
den etheridge wrote:Mr Langham, Your Sidecar was ineligible because of the Wheels and TYRE Width, not the Engine. I Remember the Photos You had on this Site many months ago.
at least you've got the answer,that the engine IS legal !!
Mr Etheridge. If Howard equips his Konig with the the correct tyres, then it will be eligible for a place on the CRMC grid. Is this what you are saying ?
To me, the biggest problem the classic club faces is increasing track time for its members over a weekend. There is a big debate about allowing newer 125's into the club at the moment. There is another big debate about reducing the numbers of split grids in the solo classes. Each class wants its own race. There was nearly a fight at the AGM over these issues this year. I am opposed to this because to increase track time you need fewer races. I know many of the sidies would love to run split races but there just isn't time.
Lets just hope loads of solos stop racing soon. I would think there would be a possibility to include different bikes in the P4 class then. But with most classes running with many reserves I can't see that happening soon.
CRMC doesn't need any more bikes on the grid, why would they change the rules to what is a class that fills grids and that the people who ARE racing with the club enjoy?
Wouldn't make much sense to me.
I see the point of the eligibility officer's job being the thankless task of getting the grids fairly evenly set within their periods and making the decision himself, with advice where taken but with a mind to the possibility of spec creep, already hearing talk of letting TZ's anywhere near the CRMC sidecar grid? I was so dismayed at Silverstone couple of years ago going to CRMC and seeing TZ solos there.
I can't understand how classic rules ever need to change much, if they were or weren't eligible in 1980 then the same bikes should or shouldn't be now? History hasn't changed just some peoples' rose tinted perception of it.
IF YOU'VE FORGOTTEN YOUR LOGIN EMAIL ME, WE ARE GOING BACK TO BEING LOGGED IN TO READ. steve@steveenglish.com subject:login and whatever details you remember
Steve, you put your finger right on it - spec creep. There always has and will be bods with machinery or bits that are not quite eligible but if sufficient persuasion is used then they hopefully may be allowed. I am not for one moment suggesting that Sidecar Bloke is or would be party to this undesirable matter. Rules are made to draw boundaries and as you say if that bit or bike was not eligible at the end of '67 or '72 then that is how it should be now.
The two founders of CRMC had one major concern fight from the earliest days of the Club that under no circumstances should 'silhouette racing' ever be allowed (here I'm talking both two and three wheels), just look where that has led. The other firm conviction was that the concept of genuine classic machines should noy be diluted which eventually led to the formation of IHRO.
It is true about the sidecar family - you can stop racing but you can never, ever leave!
and i think they are a thing of beauty like a bmw low centre of gravity just asking to go into a sidecar chassis get real why argue the pro's and con's wether they are the right year or colour or whatever stop being negative and think if it look's right it usually is right 
