The Place

as I say in the subject what do we get for our £300 registration?

when it was mentioend last week I said yeah,ok we can cope with that but on reflection I can't see what we get for the money.

I thought at a time when the grids are shrinking the FSRA would be doing all they can to encourage teams, not hit them with yet another cost. Ok so we get them back if we do 5 rounds, but I know a few of the teams probably won't do 5 rounds as they are already skint and just about scraping through to make it out in even one or two. I also know a couple of teams including us wil probably switch to a 600.

So what are we getting for our money? If as the letter states we get it back, what purpose does it serve? it definately won't be earning the FSRA much in their account.

The rounds we have are OK, but we're only at 4 track, and not the best it has to be said.

In addition to the £300 we have to join 4 clubs.

We don't even get a british title.

This isn't just my oppinion. I ahve had a couple of PMson the subject so would someone please explain.

thanks

John Chandler.
F350

Not sure exactly what the reason behind it is but I think will loosely be based on the following.

The idea of the bond is for rider committment for the championship. The FSRA go to considerable length's to organise the relivent championships for F1, F2, and F350. Just look at the hard work that was put in to get the F1 of the ground by the likes of Paul Woodhead etc.

To be able to organise a championship the series organiser needs to commit a certain number of starters to the club organising a round of the championship. As a race organiser I would'nt be happy having a race with 10 racers in it when I could quite easily run an extra solo race with 30 + riders in it.

The paying of the bond up front is to show you commitment to doing the championship. Talking hyperthetically now and not using any facts for this illustration. At the end of the season the championship organisers ask which Fx (where x is sidecar class) riders wish to do a British Championship the following season, with no committment 40 + teams come back and say they wish to race, so the organisers go forward with this and approach clubs BSB etc and get very good dates. When it comes to it though when a race happens only 12 teams enter a race. Imagine the egg on face on behalf of the the championship organisers, then imagine the negotiations for a race for the following season.

I must admit it made me smile a little when I opened the letter I did not take it seriously though I thought it had been sent in error

It would seem an inappropriate charge as I understood the series is run at normal club meetings where you only needed to be in the FSRA to get the 350 points I looked on the site but could not find the format for the series to check

It may well put some people off riding as you say

but dont forget you can still ride your 350 though its still a F2

Without doubt people work hard on the organization of a series and will never satisfy everyone but adding uneccessary cost in the present economic climate will not help the remaining 350 riders

As far as I see it; one of the main gripes has been that news of having to pay this £300 bond has only just emerged in the last week to ten days. Prior to this F350 / Post Classic crews were not informed of this, nor has it been paid in previous years, I am told. On the scheme of things and the overall cost of racing; £300 to some may not be a lot of money. To others, it is a substantial amount of cash which many can ill afford to lay out, even if they do get it back after doing the minimum required number of rounds. With the cost of joining clubs, entry fees, travel etc etc etc then it is yet another cost to deter teams from taking part.

The point Karl makes about commitment to the championship is a fair one, but by a similar token, it seems that the teams who have supported this series over the last few years and will continue to do so this season are the ones being penalised. At many of the F350 / Post Classic rounds last year, the grids were combined with open or F2 sidecars. I'm sure this will continue to happen despite paying the bond to the F.S.R.A. Again it opens up the debate of whether there are too many under subscribed classes in our sport (but that is a debate for another day !)

At the end of the day, as John says this is not an official British championship. The people who race F350 / Post Classic are a close knit group who either choose to race bikes they enjoy riding or do not have the finances to commit to F1 / F2 sidecar racing, and in effect are governed to race in this series as there are few alternatives. Yes you could race a F350 in F2 but we all know that there will be few opportunities to take home a trophy or championship against the 600's, similarily with the Post Classics against the F1's. This is effectively a club championship held over a total of three circuits - Cadwell Park, Anglesey and Mallory Park. Scarborough is a non-championship round, whereas last year there was a diverse selection of circuits to suit all tastes.

We are in uncertain times economically here; effectively teams could lose their bond money if they have a mechanical breakdown and cannot afford to make good the repairs; not to mention other circumstances beyond their own control which could limit or stop their racing. My opinion is that having to pay this fee up front is likely to only further deplete the field rather than encourage people to bring their outfits onto the tracks.

One question. Do teams have to pay the bond to race ? Or is this to qualify them for championship points, prize money and trophies ?

I think it's great we F350 racers will have the same status as the FSRA F1 and F2 boys and girls. we may be few in number but we are here and should be treated the same..good circuits, some prize money ..and for that we have to pay a bond as you all know Robin and I put so much love and fun into our racing .it costs us an arm and a leg in fuel ,everywhere is at least 500 mile one way so pay up and get out there and race

sorry Annette but I don't agree, paying a bond of £300 doesn't give us the same status as the F1 and F2 boys, its not a propper british title and IMHO we aren't at ENOUGH good circuits. Why go to the same circuits 2 or 3 times when there are so many others. East fortune, Oulton etc etc.

I'm sure the organising clubs would rather have a full grid of F1/2 but I'm also sure none would turn down a grid of 15 350/pc.

We had prize money last year which was very much appreciated. But if we all pay our bond, then get it back where is this years prize fund coming from? If its from the FSRA's prize fund pot, do we, being the same status as the f1/2 teams get an equal share?. I think not!!!.

I understand that the FSRA need to give commitment to the clubs to get the races we need but this isn't the way to do it in my mind. I'm not sure what is as there are so many factors which make us decide to race or not, not least cash flow.

This WILL be a big issue to some of the teams and I think it WILL reduce the numbers not increase them.

jc.

Hi everybody, under a new name but its still me Dave. I have to agree with you John. When I opened my post on Saturday my heart sank. Having been made redundant last August and scraping almost two grand together for all the repairs and alterations that the bike needed for this year, sank every penny that I could lay my hands on into my new business, I need this like a hole in the head. I hope to be out racing at 4 or five meetings but with a new business, who knows. At the moment I have worked since before Christmas and have still another two weeks work before I can claim my first stage payment, three hundred quid is a lot to me at the moment. I feel very strongly that this has all been done in a very poor way. I have not been consulted about this. Decisions like this should be put to the membership at an AGM not just made by the committee. The FSRA is a club made up of its members. If this was something that the committee felt was needed they have had ample time between last season and this to make contact with those involved to gauge feelings on the matter. To leave it till this late in the day with no consultation is unacceptable. I very much want to take part in the championship as far as I am able and wish to support the FSRA as often as possible but decsions like this and made in this way are making this difficult to say the least.
Dave Saunders

Willow Racing wrote:When I opened my post on Saturday my heart sank. I need this like a hole in the head.

Have to agree Dave - like you - my income over the past few months (years even) has been dismal....
We also hope to support as many rounds as possible - but the way things are financially at the moment - if we were being really sensible / responsible we wouldn't do any at all...
This seems to have surfaced a bit late in the day anyway - the letter was received a day after entries had closed for the Cadwell meeting...

teampastit wrote:some prize money ..and for that we have to pay a bond

OK Annette - I can understand what you are saying - but there is precious little detail about the prize fund - (we know it costs you two more than most of us to get to meetings)

little chud wrote:sorry Annette but I don't agree, paying a bond of £300 doesn't give us the same status as the F1 and F2 boys, its not a propper british title and IMHO we aren't at ENOUGH good circuits.

Haven't taken a good look at any of the regs yet - but I guess they are club meeting status ? - as for "Title" - I guess that is a title from the FSRA...

We had prize money last year which was very much appreciated.

I wasn't aware of that - but bearing in mind the current economic climate - are there likely to be many willing sponsors available to support any prize fund this year ? - or are the teams that fail to complete the required number of rounds likely to forfeit their £300 to fund the prizes for everyone else ?
Also very little detail how it will work ? - is it just a matter of turning up at the meeting ? - what if you wreck an engine in practice ? etc...

I can't believe the FSRA committee have imposed this bond system on the F350/Post Classics. You are competing within club races therefore they should not have to support the grid numbers, any that turn up and race are a surely a bonus to the organising club for their sidecar club races. Then to do it in the current economic climate is cruel.
Be warned if you pay the bond with the intention of doing the rounds and then through no fault of your own you can't do enough of the rounds, there will be no mercy shown by the FSRA they will not give you your money back or even a percentage of it, i know it happened to me last season in the F1 championship.

Please wait for a reply from Jan or Pat, i know they are in discussion about this but wont want to post until it is resolved.

OML ....... we only wanted to pay because I thought it would help the F350 class ..Robin and I are retired and race the F2 and F350 ........we don't go out for drinks or meals or buy new clothes everything that comes in goes out on our racing at 72 and 58 we have to do it NOW not in 5 years time .............what ever you guys decide to do Robin and I will support you all

Sorry I killed this thread dead with that I didn't really expect it to actually have any effect with Annette and JC both reading it
So does everyone think they would rather not pay a registration deposit and not have FSRA funds contributed towards start/prizemoney/reduced entries if any were available? (see I managed to avoid the word 'bond' in there, I hate that word - nearly avoided prize money too )

How funny is that Annette? While I'm saying I've killed the thread dead not expecting you to take any notice you posted
Ignore me, carry on

Are the FSRA in touch with the common member & do they appreciate why they are there, representing the club racer or are they becoming like the ACU reps & committee?
This is no reflection on Pat who has done a superb job over the years.
It always seems to be pat in the firing line!
Who are the people who are on the FSRA Committee? We all know Pat as the face of the committee, are there any reps on the FSRA who are also on any ACU committee?

I'm still a rep. Most of the members I know are very common, must be the company I keep.