TT 2011...important...engine spec

[lovingit]

As you know there have been numerous rumours re new engine rules etc for F2 class,and as frustrating as it is for everyone the FSRA have not until now had any decision from the ACU to give you.This has been brought about by the objective by the ACU to slow sidecars for the TT .

So for TT 2011 TT ONLY Standard Head and standard Cams

However cam wheels can be slotted to adjust timing.
Everything else will remain free

The Bottom end is currently free for 2011.But is being looked at by the acu for 2012

This will also apply to British F2 for 2012.So at least it gives a year of use for your tuned heads..

There has been mentioned but not confirmed that there maybe a dyno at the TT also.

Bearer of bad tidings Dean Banks {Assistant Secretary }

[mick]

i have some standard honda heads for sale anyone

[steve-e]

Bearer of bad news Dean? Sounds like a good start to me

[Bob B]

Looks good to me also, a similar thing works in BoB

[kew]

My outfit is slowed down enough by having me sat on it.
Never mind every cloud has a silver lining, I wont have to spent two and a half weeks in the Isle of Man any more.
Anybody want to buy an Ireson Honda.

[oldbelly]

There are two problems relating to the TT (Sidecars). Lack of numbers and unreliability. They are in no way related and the proposed rules will probably finish the sidecar TT in one go. After talking to Keith (Whiting) at Cadwell,I know he has no part in this, However after years in the sport its not difficult to work out where its coming from.

[Lumley32]

i think that this is not a bad thing!

i was ment to be doing the tt as a newcomer this year but due to uncontrollable things that dident happen, i now have engines that were built for the tt (not wildly tuned but not standard) that are no good to anyone. for me the change of rules is a massive setback but i will be there next year with standard engines.

in the next few years this ruling will help new and young people get to the tt, i have no dought about that, but it is going to be very hard for me (and everyone else) to get the engines to the rules.

if we all just say "right i wont do it then" and dont enter then the sidecar TT will be scraped and we all no that. and as for keeping engines in one peace, most engine problems are down to oil (or lack there of) but lets not get into that.

the biggest problem with unreliability is the way people see the lifespan of engines. i.e if you accept engines destroying them selfs and just see it as one of those things then it will keep happening!

to put it bluntly (and these are not my words) "you sidecars are your own worse enemies" and i include my self in that.

no one can say how long our sport is going to remain, but in the long run this is going to help, the only thing that annoys me is that we (my team and i) have spent so much time and money on tuning when it would have been better spent on track time and tires.

this is form my point of view as a 22 year old sidecar racer at club and british f2 level aiming for the TT how ever i do understand that in a few years time when we are all running standard engines there will be £10 000 engines and £1000 engines of the same year make and model. its happened in carting and it will happen hear.

the only difference is there will be a 1% difference in power instead of 10%.

so i say good effort to the acu/fsra for not bringing in some rules that would have had a bad effect on reliability, as this would have had a worse effect in the long run.

this is of corse just my lowly opinion, and sorry if this is hard to read due spelling/grammar.

rant over

[dips]

Ah well it will separate the men from the boys! but its going to make a huge difference to speeds? what will be the fastest speed without a tuned motor? sub 110mph? 111mph?

Its going to make for boring viewing! Yeah sure more will finish! More will surely turn up! But man its going to be boring, the battle of Britain is looking a bit more appealing, maybe its time to give up the road race wings!?

[Bob B]

So does this new ruling only apply to the TT, or might there be a degree of "mission creep one wonders?

Can someone explain exactly why this necessary as there would seem to be mixed messages that it is designed to curtail speeds, or costs or kill off chairs in the Island. I'm just asking because I'm confused as no doubt others may be ...

[oldbelly]

Dips, this new idea will make no difference to reliability, there wont be a big drop in lap speeds either. Im not going to bother going into that .However it will be the final straw for some teams.

[David Stewart]

No one likes change (except me, but Bernadettes says I'm wierd anyway...).

No one likes being told that they can't do what they've always done.

BUT most importantly, no one likes not being consulted before a decision is reached.

Seeing as no one else wants to stand up and be counted, I'll own up to it. It me who suggested standard heads and do what you like to the bottom end at the last Road Race committee meeting. There were a few reasons for me doing this and if you've never been to a RRC meeting you'll just have to trust me on this. Or ask John Smith who was also there if you don't want to be seen taking the word of an ex-solo rider (as it's well known two-wheelers can't be trusted).

The conversation/debate was just going round and round in circles at the opposite end of the table and I got fed up with everyone either fudging the issue or wanting to have a tiny select group go away into a dark room and re-write the rules. To be honest I was afraid of what might come of that (and I daresay I'll be lambasted for saying so).

1) I can see that it would be unfair to ask a shed load of competitors to throw away three or four tuned heads each with no real market for them. So you have to leave the Clubmans end of the market with the existing rules for at least two years.
Equally, they were unlikely to be gaining much of an advantage through being able to keep their tuned/strong bottom ends that they'd probably paid a lot of money for, or spent many hours in the workshop building.

2) Power (and the advantages that come with it) comes mainly from expensive top end work and therefore the simplest leveller and cost saving is to go Standard Head. It's also very easy to police (no point making a rule that you can't/won't police) and affects everyone equally.

3) Reliability comes from the bottom end work and I think it is counter-productive to ban it because after the initial outlay it actually saves you money. I know what they're saying for 2012, but I still believe (and hope) there is some room for manouvere in that.

4) Costs are what's killing the sport for the majority of participants, not speed. I couldn't really care much about how fast outfits are going around the Mountain Course, nobody has yet managed to demonstrate satisfactorily to me that more speed = more accidents, in fact there were a lot more serious accidents in the days before the 100mph lap was broken than there have been since, so that to me is a false argument.

SIDECAR UNITY.
Over the years, I've heard a lot of old tosh about "Us sidecars have to stick together, because they've all got it in for us." which is an absolute load of spherical dangly things for several reasons.

1) Switched on organisers absolutely love sidecars, as they bring a vital new dimension to our meetings that nothing else can do. I'm quite open with anyone who asks, Thundersport GB is a stronger package for having sidecars in it and any organiser that thinks they're better off without you is completely bonkers. You've probably realised that Richard (Syd) is now a complete convert to the sidecar cause, but you wouldn't believe the lively 'debates' we had between us when he realised I was absolutely committed to getting sidecars into our series. To say that he was Negative about sidecars is probably the understatement of the month, but that was because he'd only ever really been involved in the BSB paddock before we went into partnership in Thundersport GB.

2) Sidecars are actually not very good at "Sticking together" you only have to read some of the heated threads and completely polarised opinions on here to see that. The organisations that 'represent' sidecars are also not very good at conveying what the majority of people want and don't seem very keen on open two way debate. I tried to get a meeting of all interested sidecar teams set up before we started the F1 Championship and I was pretty much stone-walled and given loads of excuses as to why it wasn't a good idea to have an exchange of ideas face to face.

3) Sidecars are not just one entity. There are many and various different sorts and they all want slightly different things, so to try and bundle them all up together is a mistake. Just look at some of the Classic/F.Era sidecars prefferring 6 lap races to 10 laps, for perfectly valid reasons that I hadn't properly considered myself (still learning you see after 16 years of organising meetings).

4) Even the F2s are not one entity, trying to treat them as such is the same as trying to bang a square peg into a round hole (or if Bob prefers - trying to fit a metric nut onto a whitworth spindle). There are those purely interested in the TT and Roads events, some that are interested in the British Championships, some that are only interested in authentic clubmans events and some that are involved in any different numbers of variants of all of the above.

If you all collectively want a strong TT F2 future, you have to get together face to face (not in cyberspace) and all be willing to compromise to a certain extent, rather than taking up entrenched positions (the Somme and Ypres were battles fought from entrenched positions). You don't need anyones permission or blessing to do this, you just need to arrange it, stick to it, turn up and be willing to reason.

I can arrange a large room at Mallory Park or Donington Park for you to do it in any evening or one weekend daytime (race meetings permitting).

Sorry about the long spiel, it was Syds fault.

[mrequipe]

To Quote Dave Stewart " The organisations that 'represent' sidecars are also not very good at conveying what the majority of people want and don't seem very keen on open two way debate."

I thought the FSRA were supposed to have some involment in decision making !

[David Stewart]

Yes they are.

and your point is?

[madcowf2]

surely we should seek the advice of experts before such a major change.New engines tend to be more powerful than older models? electronic control how much can you get out of a standard engine how high can you rev it ? limited to standard revs to protect the engine?or how high can push it? ok just change engines every time a new model with more poke is launched sounds easy and cheap ? whats the price for that does that make a level playing field ?

[steve-e]

It's too late for that Moomoo, the ACU have made a decision and they will stand by it. What you will learn (In My Humble Uneducated Opinion) is that it is not a major change for the sport. It's a major change for people with money invested in machines who will have to offload them somewhere, but they will be offloaded and the Sport will move on.

@ Mike Richards. The FSRA as I have said a few times before do not make the rules, they all have to be ratified by the ACU who govern the sport in their own way and the FSRA have been able to advise/confuse at their/our will.
The FSRA have been fortunate that the ACU have listened to what is basically the only class of racing that has its own representation influencing the ACU defining regulations. I don't think many other classes can do that.
The wisdom of letting riders decide the rules is for another thread somewhere. If you ask nicely we can add you to The Rant