The Place

Not a good idea.
In the mid 90's the Retford club at Cadwell Park let some F2's ( 4 cyl 4 strokes ) out in the Forgotten Era race ( now Post Classic ).
It was near the end of the season.
An F2 outfit put one of the multi class F/era bikes onto the grass, that rider lost the Multi F/Era championship because of that.
I think the F/Era rider could have been Andy or Ian Beckworth???
350's are still eligible for F2 races so you have a host of circuits & virtually every weekend to race.
Not sure if 350's are o/k for the TT F2 race though, someone will let me know.

ianw wrote:Not sure if 350's are o/k for the TT F2 race

Well I'd enjoy it (and a few other people too) - TT is now a "stroker free" event though...

Just a thought Gordon, ( off topic, but I'd say allowed ). Given the great Dave Saville's fastest lap around the TT (1992 or 3 )
20 years ago on a 350, what race position would he have been placed in last years TT?
Absolutely no reason for 350's to be barred from the TT, but then that's the ACU for you

ianw wrote:Just a thought Gordon, ( off topic, but I'd say allowed ). Given the great Dave Saville's fastest lap around the TT (1992 or 3 )
20 years ago on a 350, what race position would he have been placed in last years TT?
Absolutely no reason for 350's to be barred from the TT, but then that's the ACU for you

2011 Race 1
Placed 18th
John Saunders/Loic Ansquer 600cc MR Equipe 01 06 16.08 102.484

2010 Race 2
Placed 16th
Tony Elmer/Darren Marshall 600cc Ireson 01 06 14.46 102.526

TT 1993
Placed 2nd
Dave Saville & Nick Roche 350 Yamaha 1.06.09.0 102.66

Im sure Dave and Nick did 103 mph in sidecar "A" race in 93, with a broken clutch cable. However that was Dave and Nick. No one came any where near that in the time 350s were racing at the TT. Also for Tony Elmer to be going that slow , he had to have a problem.

steve,do you want to split this & start a new thread for Dave Saville?

oldbelly wrote:Im sure Dave and Nick did 103 mph in sidecar "A" race in 93. That was Dave and Nick, no one came any where near that in the time 350s were racing at the TT.

I think you're right Geoff - haven't got the lap times handy...
There weren't many "quite" as quick on a 350 - although 19 years have passed since he did that time...on an ancient 2 stroke (even in 1993 it was an obsolete design)

And, with due respect to everyone else; how much "slower" was the course in 1993 ? To do 100mph back then on any machine, it was a major achievement, over a race average, it was more or less a guaranteed top ten place and a silver replica. People now come to the TT with the view of doing 100mph laps consistently should be a given, even as a newcomer. With so many of the bumps and rough sections being smoothed out / improved, and the likes of Brandish etc being opened out to carry speed, it makes you wonder what riders on older / inferior machinery could do ? When you think of Moly / Fisher on carbed Thundercats doing 112mph laps or thereabouts, what could they do now, 8 or 9 years down the line

Gordon, Im sure you will agree that the time done by Dave and Nick in 93 ( with a broken clutch cable) was one of the best laps ever, in any class, in the history of the TT. Theres only us lot will ever appreciate that though.

Tim, split the thread, I've got some stories of Dave.

Not a seemless split, but carry on the discussion here !

Come on then Ian.

Quick one before any stories, I've asked this before.
At the height of the 350's in F11 there was a pic in MCN of three Sabre outfits, all in line. Dave Saville, Derek Brindley & Barry , maybe John Brindley at Snetterton??? You could see the first outfit but all you could see of the other two were the drivers helmets in line.First, second & third. Someone said when I made that post that they had the pic & would post it but it was never posted, anyone got that pic?

Remember the picture Ian. The 350 class at its very best.

Big Tim wrote:And, with due respect to everyone else; how much "slower" was the course in 1993 ? To do 100mph back then on any machine, it was a major achievement, over a race average, it was more or less a guaranteed top ten place and a silver replica. People now come to the TT with the view of doing 100mph laps consistently should be a given, even as a newcomer. With so many of the bumps and rough sections being smoothed out / improved, and the likes of Brandish etc being opened out to carry speed, it makes you wonder what riders on older / inferior machinery could do ? When you think of Moly / Fisher on carbed Thundercats doing 112mph laps or thereabouts, what could they do now, 8 or 9 years down the line

Tim , I know what your getting at but you cant compare eras, the best today are the best, the best in a past ere were the best then. However in the modern era of sidecars ( since 1991 ), Moly , Rob and Nick Crowe have been light years ahead of everyone else. Moly will prove that this year ( if the bike is up to the job ). So it wasnt that suprising that those two did those lap times on Thundercats, ( probably the best F2 fourstroke ever ).