Following on from the Push Start thread....

[sidecarf11]

As more of a spectator I love to watch push starts, if it does come about why not make it even more interesting and have a Le Man type start with riders and passengers standing on the opposite side of the track and the fastest far vest away

[RP]

have a Le Man type start with riders and passengers standing on the opposite side of the track and the fastest far vest away

I don't think that would have suited Heinz Luthringshauser

[Vicky Cooke]

Ok on a more serious note........
I voted no to push starts .

Ive been left twice on the grid just before the warm up lap and that was mainly due to my inexperience (I have grown up with F2s). Neil Wheatley also got left in the holding bay at Chimay on the long circuit, Ed did half a lap before he noticed he wasn't there, which you dont wanna be doing round there.

I personally wouldn't want to be pushing while on the front row, I just think there'd be arms and legs broken every time out. It'd probably be alright for people like Ed, Brian Gray, Ian Johnson bla bla bla all the experienced riders out there who know how to manage push starts and are prepared for someone not starting in front of them, but for the less experienced riders who are new to the sport I think it'd be a complete nightmare.

Both times Eds left me, we've been quite lucky that someone has made him aware that Ive not got on before we've got to a corner, but can you imagine what it'd be like at somewhere like Anglesey or Scarborough where the first corner is a left hander?? My guess is whoever it was would end up upside down and doing a lot of damage to the bike and themselves and more than likely cause a red flag.... and where will that eventually lead to?.......... less track time for sidecars!

Ok these are worse case scenarious but you get my drift. If push starts came back, I wouldnt stop racing with the club, but if i had the chance to do an F2 meeting on the same weekend as a classic meeting id do the F2, last season it was the other way round!

Oh and by the way, all that rambling wasn't cos our bike is difficult to start, 3 steps and it fires no problems!

[RP]

can you imagine what it'd be like at somewhere like Anglesey or Scarborough where the first corner is a left hander??

Not necessarily. I remember Dennis Westwood got all the way to the esses at Mallory without a passenger and by that time the speed was flat out. He lost his life. I started at Cadwell on the Konig and brother Graham misssed the sidecar but fortunately Chas. Wilkinson had implemented his -P sign and I realised (eventually) that I had no passenger before I got to Coppice. In the same race Bill Drury dropped Phil Kettle at Barn and again the -P sign was deployed but not before Bill's outfit had done a 90 degree rotation and he ended up taking the slip road (the stock car circuit). The fact is that the racing sidecars up to somewhere in the eighties ( I think) had only used this start method. Do we want to lose touch with the classic era or are we making up the regs to suit the modern classic racers? The clutches that we were using in the sixties and seventies did not lend themselves to clutch starts. Most would have burned out. So, do we want classics to emulate their origins or not?

[Bob B]

As a slight diversion TOMCC always used running engine starts with drivers left arm raised. Didn't take long for the odd passenger or two become an expert clutch release man Occasionally the game was given away as a an outfit moved (rapidly) off the grid with a driver's arm still in the air

[Triplebrew]

When the CRMC last did clutch starts our first one in anger did not go well. The flag went up, we pushed, Grant dumped the clutch and he slammed against the top of the engine (whcih we later found caused 2 broken ribs) and I was spat through the nose cone. We realised the power had not been turned on! Quickly switched on, re pushed and got away and finished the race. All this crap about safety does not wash - sidecar racing (all racing) is dangerous.As I have said before I have seen some nasty clutch start incidents as well as push starts. It is all about technique and the passenger and driver working together. A more valid argument would be about capability/ ability (i.e the older crews or those with previous injuries would certainly not benefit from push starts). Even following our previous experienace I would not object to push starts - I just want to race my sidecar. A lot of modern crews (and many more solo riders i must add) who have joined the classic scene are spoilt with starting rollers etc. and there is always the odd outfit with an electric start who feel that 'pushing' the start button complies with a push start!

[Phil Luhr]

my idea and best solution - no push starts and no clutch starts - I suggest we have rolling starts which always worked well when I did stock car racing (no mambi bambi flaffing about)!!
This solves the problem of burnt out clutches, disabled hip joints, knackered ankles and fat boys running out of wind!!
A quick wave of me jolly roger - and away we go!!!

[Triplebrew]

'rolling starts' - could be said that some already do

I think the only issue with clutch starts can be the length of time we are held on the grid. I am sure, being the great bunch we are, we can have some ideas thrown up and discuss. Clutch starts seem the best compromise as at least it (generally) assures everyone starts the race. A rolling start would be interesting but have never seen them done outside of car / truck / kart racing. A combination of push and clutch would never work as it is never fair to all. As an example when the push starts were done a couple of years ago the meeting after Mallory (Oulton I think?) we push started for the race and had to stop engines on the line before the race to observe a minutes silence and then push start again for the race. This took its toll on Grant so we asked at the next meeting (Brands?) if we could either have a pusher or clutch start. We were offered a clutch start - great, well no not really as we were made to start from pit lane and only allowed to go once everyone had gone past!

[sidecar bloke]

Phil's Rolling Starts - See I knew there was someone out there who could come to the table with a fresh idea! We had rolling starts in karting and when I raced my MG in Europe - the main point to clear up is when does the race begin? When the lights go green or when you pass the start/finish line e.g. if the race starts when the lights go green or Phil drops his Jolly Roger, you can overtake before you get to the line. If it's t'other way round and you can't overtake until you get to the line, when the bloke in front starts oiling up are you supposed to just sit behind him and watch the guys in front disappear into the distance? Also if we're doing rolling starts as in Phil's stock car racing surely the fastest guys start at the back with the slow, sorry, not so fast guys in the front, and I'm sure there are one or two of you out there prepared to view their opinions on fast traffic making their way to the front!

Remember - committee meeting Sunday - time's running out to make a decision.

Lots of love

Ian

[Simon Smith]

Rolling starts: As the outfit in pole crosses the start line the passenger could ignite a mini rocket indicating the start of the race.

[steve-e]

That vote seems split pretty much down the middle. I would've thought there would be more people wanting clutch starts, I'm surprised.
Interesting. I guess classics weigh less than our thing

[John no mates]

I all ways wonder why any body wants to make the sport harder that it all ready is?Is there some other motive?

I voted for clutch starts. Simply on the grounds that this is CLUB racing.

Clutch starts mean that every body who make it onto the grid, has a much better chance to get off the line when the flag drops with the engine running than trying to push start..

Many riders I meet in the paddock have no delusion of grandeur when it comes to winning races or the championship.

We all know that the top boys will clear off, putting on a good show for the spectators..For the rest, all they want from the weekend is to have a safe ride,not damage the bike and probably the most important one,have a good dice with fellow riders.

I have no doubt that if clutch starts are reintroduced them the happy crews we have in our paddocks will drift away..