2011 TT

[smiffy]

After reading through the last five pages i'mstill none the wiser about while numbers are declining at the TT .

Is it that F2's are too expensive ( tuned engines , motec , cost of bending steel into a chasis shape ) ?

Is it that even if you have a F2 competing at the TT is too expensive ( ferry , tyres , time off work , engine wear ) ?

Or are people just not so interested in competing at the TT anymore ?

I mean if an F2 cost £5000 would more people enter ?

Or if everyone had their entries and travel covered would more people enter ?

[Bob B]

Palace15 raises a very valid point "the best tuning you could do is to lose a few stone" Nothing personal intended here you understand

Ged reckons that one stone lost is equivalent to 5 bhp gained, now is that not food for thought

Gordon's last post echoes my thoughts, blueprinting is the way to go as it will 'level' the playing field' as far as possible. As for using parts from other engines, e.g. heads, injectors etc then should this not be permissible any longer or am I waffling.

Give me a nice set of Thruxton cams and followers and I'd be happy

[mum e]

To do 37 miles for a lap is a long way round, and a lot to learn. and perhaps the threat of the races being cancelled because of bad weather and not racing , is another factor.

[kew]

After reading through the last five pages i'mstill none the wiser about while numbers are declining at the TT .

Is it that F2's are too expensive ( tuned engines , motec , cost of bending steel into a chasis shape ) ?

Is it that even if you have a F2 competing at the TT is too expensive ( ferry , tyres , time off work , engine wear ) ?

Or are people just not so interested in competing at the TT anymore ?

I mean if an F2 cost £5000 would more people enter ?

Or if everyone had their entries and travel covered would more people enter ?

Gary the problem is not the cost of the bike it is the cost of the meeting.
To run at the TT you need to take close on 3 weeks off work, to get the van and caravan over with just 2 of us is £650.
I know a few people who are not there this year because they could not afford to do 2 TTs in a row, they will be there next year.

And the rest of you STOP BEING FATTIST

[Helen Gibson]

KEW is a fine figure of a man, and getting more so each year!

[Helen Gibson]

I think, though that the debates about costs should reflect the other argument about tuned/not tuned... costs getting there are peanuts in the "big" teams budget, but for the guys who can't afford the hottest mods, they are huge.
What is the cost of the boat in proportion to the cost of 1,2,3 tuned motors? In proportion to a 10 year old outfit with a motor from the breakers?
It must be disheartening to struggle all year to get the money together for one fast engine and a couple of "practice" motors, knowing others will spend more than your total budget on just one of theirs.
The 3 weeks off work and boat do figure for the average competiror too...bigtime.
Elsewhere I have pointed out that the system of big start money for names is making things worse. Why pay teams who already get tens of thousands of someone elses money to pay their racing, large sums to turn up, when the rest of the field, who do not have these budgets, get nothing? It's totally counter-productive when we are trying our hardest to get new people, and persuade everyone to keep coming back.
It's not MotoGP with 9 starters or whatever... it's the TT and you NEED the guys who will just get finishes. They are the real heroes... working (and helping each other) day and night with begged, borrowed and still-to-be-paid-for bits, unrecognised by the organisers who are blinded by the bling of the big teams.
Use that budget to help everyone all the way down the field.
Rant over... but I'll be back with more LOL!

[G JONES]

blinded by the bling of the big teams.

That just about sums it up...

[mick]

At the end of the day racing is exspensive ,we all made the choice to race /compete.
look at the cost of a race meeting say brands gp £350 +fuel+travel+tyres+food thats got tobe a £1000 weekend racing
so when you look at it like that it makes the tt bloody cheap and you get no start money from the clubs

as for making racing cheap its no going to happen cause its not , look at the price of fuel ,tyres ,repairs,oil ,leathers,helmets the list is endless, and all were talking about is tuned engines , motec ect

[palace15]

I know we are getting a number of different issues being discussed here on the one thread, but for the long term survival of sidecars at the TT, You must get more popular with the fans, years ago I had a season ticket for Brands and had no idea or interest about sidecars until in the early hours one morning I stopped in South London to help a biker that had run out of fuel, that biker was Alan May's passenger Micky Gray, Micky invited me to see them in the paddock at the next meeting and from then on I have only really been interested in 'the chairs'. That was over 30 years ago and Micky and I are still friends, I met Derek Plummer on the pitch n putt course in Douglas at one TT and he seemed very pleased that someone had recognised him. Last year I chipped in £20 to have my name on Greg Lamberts outfit, and this year I recognised him in a pub/restaurant after the TT and he took the time to talk sidecars with me(top bloke) another year I met Clive Price, ex passenger and now sponsor on the ferry, another top bloke.
Things like this the fans and marshals never forget, I know the majority of you are very approachable but to try and raise 'the sidecar profile it would be great if the crews at the TT could have a meet the fans day during the TT and if some of you appeared at the TT marshals supper held on 'mad Sunday' evening in the Villa Marina, that would go down really well, but to be fair you need to be recognisable, everyone knows what McG and a lot of the solo guys look like with/without helmets on, but the majority of sidecar crews are virtually invisible!. You have a number of pro sidecar marshals especially in Mark Fitzgerald so perhaps he could help co-ordinate a 'meet the marshals at the 'Villa'?
So get out there and get known, you could even perhaps attract some financial backing!

[Fitz]

The question raised by Helen is how to get more Sidecars at the TT and I don't believe the answer lays in standard engines or any other modification/alteration. That is not to say it is not a good idea though, but it won't make more entries for the TT will it? If that route was taken it would make the racing more affordable for the rest of the year though and maybe put a few extra quid in the pot.

In my opinion that answer lays in the costs of travel and the TT course license. My first TT in 1994 with Stan Cooper we started at 71 and were not the last away by any stretch of the imagination, in fact I think with Steve Fargher in 1995 we were 83 and again still not last away.

So the costs of travel? High with the racket huh? They offer deals to the marshals if they come and marshal for both TT & MGP but seems to me they make little concessions of the racers themselves, who without there would be no TT anyway. If anyone wants to write and put this point to the Racket their Financial Director is a chap called Duncan Jude. He has been there about a year now I suppose having previously been at Scottish Provident.

The other thing is the course license. I really can't see the point behind it at all, it proves nothing other than to be a money spinner for the ACU. Lets face it the gap between say Simon at 114mph and Matt Dix as a newcomer at 102mph? (or was it more?) is not massive like it is between say Hutchy at 131mph and the last man away in a solo race doing 110mph. Yeah I know the speed gaps are the same(ish) but you are not going to be as far around a lap so lapping people is not really an issue. Plus they could set Sidecars off at 5 second intervals. No more dangerous than 10 second intervals.

If there was a flat fare of say £500.00 to come to the TT and the course license was dropped I am sure there would be more Sidecar entries.

Dave's point about getting known is a good one too. We all know Sidecar Crews are friendly, relaxed and laid back and like the attention. That said the only Solo's that are known are the Top 10 due to TV coverage, worse with the chairs, unless you are a fan you are only ever gonna know Moly/Nick/Klaus. Do many people know what John Holden/Roy Hanks/Tony Elmer look like without their race gear on? Doubtful.

It was a shame this year that at the TT Marshals Supper only Dave Johnson (Solo Newcomer) and Simon Neary/Paul Knapton and Team supported it. It is a perfect opportunity to talk to the fans/marshals and if someone bungs you £50.00 then great.

It would be nice to think that maybe we could take Dave's idea of a Sidecar Open Day forward and get the best sport in the world some good coverage.

I will be back on the Island next year for TT (unless I move back before that) and don't know yet if it will be as DSM at Ballacraine yet, depends on whether we get contracted out to the ACU!!!....but I will be back and would love to help in any way I can.

[Helen Gibson]

A Meet the Sidecars event is a brilliant idea... let's work on it, Fitz! Maybe get some of the regular TT boys to come across the same weekend we have the newcomers over, so they can help and have pics taken etc. This time I'll take the pictures, so they don't disappear... was never able to get the ones taken at the Grandstand this time very disappointing for the newcomers...
A road run for local bikers (Fitz knows 'em all!), finishing at say, Rosie's or the Creg, with lots of teams there, with some outfits (local, probably, because of cost), and then some mingling and getting to know... questions answered etc.
Probably not possible to have anything at Jurby... but... never say never..
Anyway...........
To be honest it isn't finding sidecar fans that's the big problem at the TT... it's finding sidecars for them to be fans of... and keeping them going till the end of TT fortnight.
Firstly.. let's have less of this falling off, tipping over, running out of road etc! I know it makes for good pictures, but if I'm seen at the hospital much more often they'll think I'm staff (probably a cleaner). LOL To finish first, first you have to finish...
Secondly... it would be very interesting to analyse how many of the bikes which kept going / broke down, had tuned/ standard engines... looking at the reliability issue now. It was bad that from 56 entries something like 42 started the first race, and , I think 24 finished... how many reps went to standard engines (Wayhay...Karl and Lee's did!!!)
Discuss... now play nicely...

[nick robins]

I dont really know much about it but if the numbers are struggling for the sidecars, why is the team in the wilderness from the isle of man ( I think the Downeys ) not accepted every year? Would this not help the grid?

[Belly]

Looking from the outside in, going to STD engines next year would definately kill off the TT. Every team would have to budget for the TT and also new engines.... Everyone is already struggling for money so lets add some more cost for the teams who can only just about afford to do it now!!

I've used the same two engines for three seasons each doing 1500 miles between rebuilds now thats cheaper racing!!

Also why do people take three weeks off work, the sidecar event only lasts a week and a half??

[Vicky Cooke]

Elsewhere I have pointed out that the system of big start money for names is making things worse. Why pay teams who already get tens of thousands of someone elses money to pay their racing, large sums to turn up, when the rest of the field, who do not have these budgets, get nothing? It's totally counter-productive when we are trying our hardest to get new people, and persuade everyone to keep coming back.

Blimey, someone has finally hit the nail on the head! Yippeee!

We were at East Fortune for the Bob Mac meeting a couple of weekends ago and a few spectators came over to talk to us. They'd been to the TT and knew about the so called big names getting mega bucks to start there. Where is the logic in that? "Lets pay you lot all these thousands of pounds because you have the biggest truck and the poshest set up, and yeah go ahead and slag the TT off as much as you like, we aren't bothered, it's only money!" Like Helen said, they get enough help from their sponsors and are able to race for free!
Im not saying that the big names aren't talented but there is other talent out there waiting to be discovered, but they just dont have the budget. Most people who go to the TT scrimp and scrape all year round and go without so they can get to the TT, it's these people that should be receiving help, not the ones who's racing is free!

[palace15]

I don't know exactly who you are referring to when you say about the 'big' names and expenses, I can only assume its Reeves, Klaffi. Moly and last year the Birchalls.
We do need these crews as long as others do not suffer because of the expenses paid. Once upon a time, they probably also struggled when they started out, Reeves and Klaffi ex world champions, Moly, most sidecar TT wins, Birchalls, reigning world champions, speaks for itself really.
Is any crew/crews able to give a breakdown of what the 2010 cost them in terms of transport, entries etc and maybe people like myself can fully appreciate the costs involved, and perhaps we can come up with some ideas that could financially help. A number of people seemed to like my idea of a sidecar open day at the TT, how about a TT sidecar supporters club where teams, sponsors etc could donate items for auction/sale and the money raised going to TT crews that have 'signed up' to the 'club'.
How about something Ferrari, and I suppose others do(but they sell them at extortionate prices), and that's 'mount' parts from old engines on small plinths and sell/raffle/auction them. Can you imagine a sidecar fan owning one of Klaffi's pistons, from his TT winning outfit, assuming he's replacing them!