Klaus Enders Busch Chassis

[JnJ]

"Replica" or "Classic" is the question surely ? If it is a real one it has to be a classic. If it is a replica surely it's not a classic, a silhouette maybe but not a classic. Classic racing in this country in my opinion stinks particularly the solo's. There are more Manx Norton's about than ever came from the works. At a practice day at Mallory last year I saw an ABSAF with blue spot Yamaha callipers on that was classic eligible ! how does that work then ?
Yes we have to conform to rules and regs but........... Why cant the replica's simply have their own class ? It would be so good for the sport and the public to see these replica's in action but please don't call them classics.
I do all my racing now on mainland Europe for soooo many reasons.

[oldbelly]

Enders bike looks fast standing still. We were lined up behind Enders at Scarborough in 72 in the holding bay. Our Windrick BSA was tidy but it looked like something out of the Arc by comparison. The thing that has always stuck in my mind though are those drum brakes when we were all on discs.

[RARING TO GO]

Oldbelly, may be his outfit was much lighter than yours and hence required lower braking efficiency ,???????????????????

[tonybsa2008]

I am I correct in thinking Steinhausens(apologies for the spelling)Busch Konig also had drums?

[dick tapken]

know what you mean geoff,the only time iv'e raced at siverstone gp in 76 and who park's up next to me in the paddock was rudi kurth with the outfit on the roof of his car,my bike was brand new yet still looked old fashioned against his 'year's ahead of his time another true perfectionist from the continent.

[sidecarracing]

Enders bike looks fast standing still. We were lined up behind Enders at Scarborough in 73 in the holding bay. Our Windrick BSA was tidy but it looked like something out of the Arc by comparison. The thing that has always stuck in my mind though are those drum brakes when we were all on discs.

that´s what I have been saying for years, Klaus Enders became World Champion with drum brakes as late as 1972, the cut-off year for the so-called "Classics"...
Now then, have a look at the current start grids of CRMC's P2 and P3 (and maybe even also P1), I think you will find every outfit is on disc brakes.
Because they are wider, bulkier (so dimension wise more like F2...oops, what am I saying naughty) and the tracks have become shorter and twistier they need a lot more braking probably.

[oldbelly]

Enders most likely didn't use the brakes that much John.

[RARING TO GO]

I think Steinhausen was still on drums in 1975, whilst most were on discs. I will ask Steinhausen next time I see him what his fastest lap @IOM was with drums, it must have been over 100mph as the race speed was 98.11mph.

[jkr46]

[quote="Kieran Clarke"]In 1972 as you all know Dieter Busch built a lovely sheet steel chassis for Klaus Enders to race in the world championship. Since then Otto Haller a friend of Dieters has made a copy of the chassis with the help from Dieter himself. The CRMC rules state 'Steel plate reinforcing is permitted particularly in area such as the steering head however excess plating or large sheet steel areas are not allowed the chassis must be visibly constructed of tubular steel'. My question is why can't the Busch sheet steel chassis be replicated and raced in the CRMC if it was within the period?

Hi Mogli, Firstly I'm a big fan of these mould breaking designs from the day Busch was clearly ahead of his time and you get genius's like this come to light across all forms of motor sport occasionally and their work is art!

But with regards to your question I think the reasoning is that the CRMC rules are based around the majority of what was about in the day not EVERYTHING I personally agree, if you let replicas of the specials in all that will happen is everyone will turn up on special replicas and the more conventional style tubular chassis's which in all honesty was the back bone of the grid in the day will disappear.

It's a hard one as at the time they were built they were new concepts and it was modern racing not classic. When you try and replicate something as in racing from the day you have to exclude things sometimes to keep it a closer representation. There was probably only ever 2 of these chassis's on the grid at any one time so what do you say the first two people to turn up with one are allowed in and the rest aren't as that would be a real representation of the day.

[jkr46]

[quote="Kieran Clarke"]If Klaus Enders himself turned up on that bike in the CRMC they would have to turn him away, not because of the sheet steel construction but because of the wide back tyre!

I'm sure it's the same for sidecars as it is for the solos in that for specials if it's the actual bike from the day it's eligible regardless.

[jkr46]

would folk like to see a busch replica cause they would ,but will they ever get the chance no way ,i can't use my bm as it's got the wrong tyres on,yet there's bike's out there wider than mine is long how do you work that out ,i'm 2/3 rds building one out of box section it's not a busch replica but it's looking good will i try to get it into crmc rounds what's the point think i speak the truth about the clicky git's ,get it out with us accross the channel where it does'nt matter what colour or some other farsical rule they seem to make up to suit themselve's,

Now I agree that the dimension rules maybe should of been changed to reflect something closer to true classic dimensions before all the modern classics came around and cc limits as things are built to the rules these days and with modern engineering we get a lot closer to the limit than they ever did in the day but it's only natural why would anyone handicap themselves when starting with a blank canvas.

For someone who wants things tightening it seems strange you want to use wider than legal tyres??

[dick tapken]

jason we measured both avon and yoki tyres on a flat surface to measure tread contact area ,both were the same only thing was the yoki tread went further into the sidewall,i dod'nt want to get into a slanging match but they only see what seem's to suit themselve's personally if it's got 3 wheel's and look's decent ride it!!

[kew]

jason we measured both avon and yoki tyres on a flat surface to measure tread contact area ,both were the same only thing was the yoki tread went further into the sidewall,i dod'nt want to get into a slanging match but they only see what seem's to suit themselve's personally if it's got 3 wheel's and look's decent ride it!!

I'll get the LCR out then Dick.
It's got 3 wheels and looks decent.

[kface]

Going back to the dimension issue does anyone know how much wider the newer oufits are compared to the period ones which were raced. Also it would be interesting to know the wheel offset.Perhaps one or two of the manufactures would like to comment on this.

[jkr46]

I've never actually done the contact patch test, did you do it with a complete outfit so it has the right preload weight and at a true tyre pressure 15-16psi?

The problem is people always want clear black and white rules understandably, the easiest way to do this and police it is to use the manufacturers sizing and going by this the Yoko is too wide.

I have a 13" outfit so would benefit from the yoko's being allowed in, but i agree with them not being allowed in they don't look in keeping with a classic outfit even the avon's are pushing it in my eyes.

If you take a relaxed approach to eligibility the genuine classic outfits will disappear even quicker and lets face it the CRMC was set up specifically for these bikes.