F1 - 600cc no justification

[Malcolm]

Well the whole thing seems to have gone in many directions and seems to have been started originally by the poor grids at the Sidecar World Championship events. If you analyse the real reason for this its easy to answer COST to compete in the World Championship for the whole season is extremely high as most teams from around the World are generally self financing or partially financed by sponsors, its possible you could answer that a full season of doing the National series is the same cost, but we know from past experience that this is not the case. i.e. travel costs are greater so the main reason for poor grids are
1 Cost
2 Time teams, driver, and passenger are away from work
3 Incentive to compete at World Level ?

The above has nothing to do with engine size there are enough F1 sidecars and teams World Wide to fulfil the grids with quality teams so the problems lye within the way the Word Championships are structured.
The TT does not even need to be mentioned as this is a one off special event and apart from a few, none would ever have any intension of doing anything other than that event and a few national meetings mainly to achieve the necessary requirement to compete at the TT.

The FIM Sidecar World Championships are supposed to be fed from the Worlds top sidecar teams competing from the National Federations Championships to compete and strive to be the best in the World and become a World Champion.

This is the area that needs addressing not keep changing the rules to try to overcome the shortfalls of the way to fill grids at a lot of cost to all the semi amateur teams, and this should be started primarily by the vey person who is muting the changes, and the National Federations, not keep changing the rules of the machinery to gloss over the real reason of the problems that exist that cause low grid turnouts
The FIM race committees that consist of the National Federations members that have scheduled meetings during the year should be discussing the way forward for the World Championships and looking at ways to encourage the teams to compete unfortunately this may involve money i.e. travel money for each team not prize money, I understand that most of the World Championships are run by Promoters in conjunction with the FIM and the necessary National Federation of the event country, but with sidecars at this time there is no promoter and the FIM is the organiser promoter so to this end if they are prepared to continue with the championship it is there responsibility to do it with the correct adjustments needed to make sure it is a real FIM World Championship if not drop it. Its their shop window and should be either be done with the full backing of the committees with all there input necessary or dropped from the calendar completely not just run as an I suppose we should keep it going.
The working groups are made up off the National Federations from around the World so these are the area’s that need the correct information to give the input needed to make the FIM World Championships a real strong FIM World Championships, changing the rules all the time is not the answer what we have at this time with the F1 machines is totally ok, it needs correct input to the organisers to adjust things in a small way, but unfortunately that means spending money from the FIM to help the teams to overcome the cost of travel this then equals the cost back to the same as National Championships then this spectacular sport would grow and become a true FIM World Championship with full grids.

It could also be said there are necessary adjustments needed to be made to the existing rules on a safety basis that would be quite simple to implement because the manufactures of the current engines used in the Sidecar World Championship gain more horsepower on yearly basis so there now becomes the need for some power reduction is basically for the safety of the riders as it becomes increasingly harder for the passengers to endure the g forces for the entire race in safety with the traction of the tyres and braking these machines can now endure this could be done by simply reducing the exhaust outlet at the head so no need for expensive changes to the teams like engines changing to 600cc this then overcomes the longevity of the tyre life ease of control after the race in technical control as the restrictors can be anodised red and FIM etched markings and better safety for the passengers. Ok people could argue that they have no passenger problems, but I think that covers maybe 6 teams.
All these type of changes should be done without discussion ( apart from the FIM working committees getting the technical issues agreed) just implemented and then all National Federations should be made to follow the same technical regulations ok some countries still allow different cc capacity but they could be classified separately i.e. 600cc up to 1300cc this then gives uniformity world wide so that the national federations then know the teams that can be put forward to World Championship series should the need arise.

Contrary to belief the small time I spent working with the FIM and UEM it is possible to make changes, it just has to be presented correctly with good reason, so I believe in making changes to the complete World of Sidecars to chase a dream is totally unjustified as the sidecar classes are healthy, and fine as they are with small adjustments here and there all things are possible, but the huge cost of motor competition these days cannot now be reversed all that can happen is try to regulate it with common sense and logical solutions.

[Belly]

Perfectly put Malcolm!

[steve-e]

[bruce moore]

Very nicely put, but you forgot one thing some of the top sidecar racers in the world , race F600 so don't over look them , perhaps the new formula will prove that, Just my opinion

[Malcolm]

I have not forgotten about the F600 people and there abilities that goes without saying the discussion is about F1 going 600cc so not lets get away from that ask any team who runs British Supersport the cost of an open engine or SBK World Championship engine cost also the fact that they run very high revs the World Championships run 80 kms it used to be 120 kms for 2 stroke and all for what purpose what we have in the F1 1000cc is fine the only 2 safety issues that need addressing are passengers and of the rear tyre these two issues can be addressed quite easy and at no great cost no need to change engines or chassis or different passengers or tyres. Small restriction is all that is needed some may moan but if its the same for all then no problem the racing stays the same only the time clock can tell. Accidents happen in all forms of motorsport all that is needed is small changes to make things a little safer not crucify the sport.

[little pierre]

A very reasoned fact !

[Malcolm]

It looks like the German Sidecar people have taken notice of the upcoming changes this is translated from the article

Stay away from tuned 600cc engines in F1 sidecars
From Rudi Hagen - 30.09.2015-13:
The discussion about the introduction of 600cc engines in F1 sidecars unsettled the team both in the World Cup as in IDM. Why do not they leave it at in the 1000s and controls the air intake?
Who really wants that soon 600cc engines are installed in the F1 teams and the previous 1000 cc aggregates gradually disappear from the sidecar racing?
Well, there's even Ralph Bohnhorst, which is also responsible for coordinating the Sidecar World Championship in the FIM. It refers primarily to the fact that the 1000s with increasing electronics would ever faster and are therefore more difficult to handle. Especially the passenger interior and passenger were increasingly hard to dominate the high centrifugal forces in curves.
Then there is also the chassis constructor Louis Christian who has submitted his LCR production partly due to the Birchall brothers in England. They favor the installation of the 600cc engines in the F1 chassis and have such a team already presented in Oschersleben under race conditions. Would the 600 soon be available in the regulations, the LCR teams would probably be bought in the future also with them.
But there is also Hans-Robert Kreutz by the DMSB, which is more security in the team sports and the weaker engines favors.
Everybody wants more safety on the track and full driver fields. You probably also hopes that increasingly enter with the introduction of the 600 more English in the World Cup.
What those affected, the more active say?
I talk with the teams in the paddock, it was out of the World Cup, the IDM or the Dutch Open, I have not met a driver who wants to have the 600 cc, on the contrary, some said spontaneously: "When that comes, then hear . I with the sport to "Many also said:" The discussions are the worst, a decision must be found, because now the season is yet to end. "
The following arguments for the 1000s, I have repeatedly heard: "The 1000s are mature and stable, especially you need to go with them only very rarely the limit. If we were now umsatteln, it costs way too much money "and the safety of the passenger." The course must complete a decent weight and fitness training, then you can also control the centrifugal forces well ".
Against the introduction of the 600, I keep hearing the following: "As a standard motor they are too slow, they have to drive on the limit at the top always, the cost material. And when the engines are not subject to control, as some plan, it is still all that miserable expensive. The Englishman then bring their tuned 600 of the TT, what is that supposed to be? And besides, would lightweights very advantage. "
I suggest:
1. The 1000 cc engines have to stay, who wants to take 600 cc, to do that, but for Stock Regulations.
2. Free choice of motor brand.
3. establishing a PS-limits.
4. Check air intake.
One could say, for example, 185 hp is the limit. How do I get that? By installing a air-restrictors, as is common for example in the DTM for more than 20 years.
Through the air restrictor (restrictor Air), the amount of air that is supplied to an internal combustion engine can be reduced, thereby to limit the power to a predetermined limit by the regulations. Due to the fact that less air enters the combustion chamber, the fuel supply must be reduced accordingly to maintain an optimal fuel-air ratio.
The engines would have to be checked to determine the beginning of a season, then issued a performance document and the engine will be sealed. The one-time costs about 160 euros. For fairness and equality would have made any tuning would be unnecessary and thus would save all the money.
Who does not want such a thing?

[steve-e]

http://www.speedweek.com//seitenwagen/n ... annen.html

[oldbelly]

Its up to the people who spend their money how and what they race.We were talking at the Jock Taylor meeting. The riders can kill this stupid idea stone dead by not taking part.If the World Championship goes with it well so be it.