Honda 836cc crmc

[xxseanxx35]

After nearly a year of riding my dads honda outfit I am now questioning the cap of 836cc? Surely this is to low? We are running a genuine 836cc honda and I'm riding the wheels off it and I just get over taken in a straight line by pretty much every other outfit in p3 and even some p1!! Surely we can be allowed to try the 900? It's only 64cc more and it may even things out a bit????
All you guys must be aware of our straight line speed and how underpowered we are???

[Bob B]

Brian Gray seems to run an 836cc Honda with a degree of success

[Eddy Wright]

I must agree with Sean he runs a genuine CB750 Honda Motor converted to 836cc

The bike is no match against the Imps, BMWs and another other bikes in P3

I support him wanting to even things out, as they stand at the moment he simply cannot be competitive.........!!!

[jkr46]

The problem is like Bob pointed out you have Brian on an 836 Honda which was proved to be an 836 at cadwell looking set to win the championship this year.

Is an 836 Honda under powered compared to rest of the grid or is your engine under powered for an 836 Honda.

I was racing with both Matt Kingsmill (1040 Moorespeed BMW) and Brian Gray at Donnington. In one of the races we all came on to the back straight in a line Matt followed by Brian then myself and Brian held Matt used the slipstream and pulled alongside Matt into the chicane. Now I think the general feeling across the Paddock is that Richard Moore builds the fastest engines on the track If Brian's 836 can compete with Matt's 1040 in a straight line the limit is about right.

[xxseanxx35]

Ill think your find Brian is also not happy as he is blowing up engines like we are trying to compete there is a limit we can tune the 836 to keep it in one piece! Yes Brian builds a very fast engine I'm not sure what he does as he lets nothing slip! Richards moors BMW motors are amazing and the way things are going we will be on a BMW next year because we can't carry on like this with the honda so your worry over a honda dominance taking over in crmc will turn into a BMW dominance in the end and probably a BMW championship which I thought we wanted to keep a variety of different makes in the championship?????

[jkr46]

I completely agree with what you say we want as many different engines as possible (that are eligible).

Lets wait for Brian or Vicky to comment as it needs to come directly from them if their not happy either.

I personally think in the right chassis, with the right driver on it and prepped to the right standard any engine could win: BMW, Honda, Imp, weslake, Triumph Triple, Norton.

I know it sounds bias as I campaign a BMW but I originally chose the BMW because there was only one out with the crmc (I wanted something different) which was Matt but that was before Richard Moore came into the crmc and Matt was plagued with reliability issues.

If you look at the history books Perky won the championship on an imp and on a BMW, Brian Gray won it on a Weslake and a Honda, they both have the most experience, open to argument but are probably the two best drivers and are the two best prepared set ups.

I think you could give them any of the engines above and within a couple of seasons they would win the championship.

What do you think the out come would be if Richard Moore and Jon Perkins decided to campaign a Honda 836.

[martyf350]

The trouble is for every small step we make to even things up every 1 else is allowed to do what they want. The general power output in p3 is 100bhp plus. Im aware of only 2 outfits that are not near these figures. Some circuits we have trouble holding off perky and foxon. We're not after making the rules to suit us we just feel things should be fairer so it is down to the riders and machine and as some1 has said we need to hear Brian and vicky a response but we are killing engines just to stay in touch and to try and keep our attempt at a championship alive.

[richard]

The trouble is there were never any 1200 imps or 1040 B.M.W's racing in period. If these were the size they should be a 836cc a Honda would have no trouble at the front. History repeats it self in the classic club, engines get bigger as riders want to win. The weslakes were 700, imps 875, b.s.a's 840, I have fitted perkings pistons into my saab and now its 1272cc

[richard]

I just noticed that my last post was 96, race No and model of car, makes you think dont it

[sidecarracing]

The trouble is there were never any 1200 imps or 1040 B.M.W's racing in period. If these were the size they should be a 836cc a Honda would have no trouble at the front. History repeats it self in the classic club, engines get bigger as riders want to win. The weslakes were 700, imps 875, b.s.a's 840, I have fitted perkings pistons into my saab and now its 1272cc

very well said Richard! Am I right in saying the cut-off date with CRMC is 31 dec 1972? Well, I'm 100% sure there were no 1040cc BMW's at that time, and for that matter also no 900 cc. The max at that time was 750cc - which by the way was sidecar class limit in Holland. I think in Germany it was even 500cc...
and for the BSA's wasn't it the case to fit a A70 crank and use undersize pistons to stay just below the 750 limit of some of the International UK events and the IOM?

[sidecarracing]

by the way, who needs 100 bhp?

certainly not people like Colin Lewis...at Chimay he won race 1 of G2 (which is 750 max) on his 750cc BMW, with his total race time he would have finished 4th in race 1 of G3 and even 3rd in the second race of G3...

it's all about the total package, not only top-end engine power

[666]

The limit was 1000 also some meetings were 1300 in the period up to 1972. They were mostly listed as the unlimited side cars.

[richard]

ITs not that the Honda needs to be bigger, the others need to be smaller as was raced in the period, not what you can make them now

[sidecarracing]

I agree with you again, Richard!

besides that, looking at the results of Donington this weekend I see that Brian Gray made fastest lap of the weekend, so I don't think a 836cc Honda is underpowered...

[Bob B]

My (subtle) original point John