Dwindling grids!!

[G JONES]

Sorry, a little off topic, but still sidecar racing.
Dave, dropped oil from sidecars might make clubs think of dropping the sidecar class, but there is another reason for the clubs to drop them,
dwindling grids!!
Club grids last weekend- Darley 9 outfits
Aintree 7 outfits
Pembrey 12 outfits.
This seems to be becoming the norm!
Just been looking at a race programme for an Aintree club meeting from the early 90's, 29 outfits entered across 2 heats.

To follow up on the post made by Ian on the Snett BSB thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=56640

I noticed this yesterday - so took a look at the past couple of weekends - I don't think it's just recently - this has been talked about before - it's not getting any better - anyone have any answers ?
At this rate - there'll be nowhere to race a sidecar before too long..

Aintree - July 9th 2016 ENTRIES x 7 outfits
Bemsee Pembrey - July 9th / 10TH 2016 ENTRIES x 12 outfits
Darley Moor - July 10th 2016 ENTRIES x 9 outfits
TOTAL 28 outfits

CRMC Anglesey - July 10th 2016 ENTRIES x 15 outfits
East Fortune - July 9th/10th 2016 ENTRIES x 5 outfits
Irish sidecars - July 9th 2016 ENTRIES x 8 outfits
RKB sidecars - July 8th-10th 2016 ENTRIES x 19 outfits


NG Castle Combe - July 2nd-3rd 2016 ENTRIES x 10 outfits
Auto 66 Cadwell - July 2nd-3rd 2016 ENTRIES x 7 outfits
TOTAL 17 outfits

[steve-e]

I can tell you what isn't the answer. Another class of sidecar. How about combining some or just letting some fall away. The FSRA preinjection, post classic, 350, what else could go in there to fill the grid a bit?

[Belly]

One problem last weekend was too many meetings in one weekend!! Its a crazy situation that needs to be thought about generally in club racing. It looks like the Derby Phoenix club has suffered again.

I'm looking forward to the 600cc World Championship next season, the grids should be mega with all the money that seems to floating around and the masses of engines available!!

According to the experts it will fix everything and also improve safety...

[artieb]

The july meeting at tonfanau ran with no sidecars. A sad day as there have been sidecars there since day 1. One driver enquired by phone but no one entered. Seems like end of sidecar racing there unless a lot of people enter the final meeting of the year in august.

[Big Tim]

I noticed this yesterday - so took a look at the past couple of weekends - I don't think it's just recently - this has been talked about before - it's not getting any better - anyone have any answers ?
At this rate - there'll be nowhere to race a sidecar before too long..

Aintree - July 9th 2016 ENTRIES x 7 outfits
Bemsee Pembrey - July 9th / 10TH 2016 ENTRIES x 12 outfits
Darley Moor - July 10th 2016 ENTRIES x 9 outfits
TOTAL 28 outfits

CRMC Anglesey - July 10th 2016 ENTRIES x 15 outfits
East Fortune - July 9th/10th 2016 ENTRIES x 5 outfits
Irish sidecars - July 9th 2016 ENTRIES x 8 outfits
RKB sidecars - July 8th-10th 2016 ENTRIES x 19 outfits

The results aren't here on the forum, but there were also a further fifteen outfits at the Derby Phoenix / F.S.R.A. Pre-Injection meeting at Croft. That makes it a total of 90 machines (granted, of varying classes and abilities of competitor). However, across eight meetings, that equates to an average of just over eleven bikes per grid - ideally you would be looking for double that number at most events. Add in the fact that there are 20 teams at the Southern 100 this week (only two of which were racing last weekend), then we have well over 100 active teams just in this one weekend racing.

The solution isn't introducing more classes, as Steve rightly says. All that seems to do is take competitors from one class sideways to another, rather than bringing in new blood. Perhaps, in terms of sidecars, and for clubs going forward, "less is more"? Fewer events clashing OR if they have more viable grids in other events, only run sidecars at certain meetings? Better to have three full sidecar grids across the country in one weekend than eight poorly subscribed ones? (I know this is a whole new discussion, with clubs only able to take the dates offered to them by circuits etc.)

That's without considering financial limitations, shortages of passengers (particularly experienced ones), time off work (given some meetings seem to involve arrival at the circuit on a Thursday or early Friday) etc. Although the grids at club events in the early part of the season are usually more healthy than later in the year, this is often a false dawn, as many competitors are using them solely to attain signatures for the "Mountain Course Licence".

These are purely a few thoughts, I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but the spectacle of sidecar racing is not sold well to the general public in a spread out procession of half a dozen outfits of varying speeds and abilities around any circuit.

[David Stewart]

Below is something I put in another area of this site back on 10th August 2013 with the somewhat sarcastic title "Nostrodamus" - I had to edit some of the expletives out of it, but I'm sure you'll get the general idea.
It is sadly proving to be very accurate..............

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10th August 2013-

Subsidised Entries are killing sidecars (Remember Hamelin?)

A Free Lunch ALWAYS has a price - do you want to pay it?

I can only put this here, because I really want to scream at all these *deleted expletive* who think that free entries are sustainable/wonderful/their right/deserved by all. If I do, people just think that I'm one of those mental blokes shouting at the traffic (sometimes they are right).

I remember telling Syd (and maybe Steve too) that subsidising Sidecar entry fees would result in disaster for the class. It may have seemed strange at the time, but part of that statement was because I knew some of the motivation behind it. Now the contractions have begun.

Look at the situation right now..............

NG - long time supporters of sidecars - are begging teams to enter at £100 for a weekend.

DP - also long time supporters of sidecars - are looking at a net loss on the club sidecar grid of over £20,000 for the season (only 6 rounds).

Auto 66 - also long time supporters of sidecars - have dropped the class at 2 events already this year.

Trust me, the ONLY reason those organisers haven't simply binned the class is because they don't currently have anything else to fill that slot. NG cancelled the Saturday slot at Donington Park and subsidised the Sunday slot to just £70 at the expense of asking the marshals to stand out on post until 7.20pm just to keep it alive.

Don't think those slots won't be useful to someone - soon. The Karting Clubs are just sitting on the fringe and waiting for the right moment (EMRA & Darley Moor have already taken their money this year).

Cheap / Free entries at any cost, are not the way forward and they will kill off the wider appeal of sidecars.

Concentrating all of the competitors in one place is something you only do as a last resort for a dying class (see 250GP solos, Supermono etc). It isn't something you do to an important class with a future. When there are fewer clubs (only 3 that I think will remain longer term) running sidecars:-
Where are new crews going to see sidecars in order to get interested in them?
Where will they learn?
Where will they find outfits for sale?

Bob already found out that all the 350 outfits are long gone - not sitting in someones shed waiting for a new owner. That was always a fantasy.

I have been watching this with a degree of horror, both this year and last.
In the same way that I looked at the black & white pictures of Jewish families calmly getting into cattle trains (when I visited Auscwitz living museum) I watch teams happily leaving behind the clubs that have looked after them for years without a backward glance.
Can't they see what's in store for them?
Don't they care that the path behind them isn't going to be there for a return trip?

It's just like the Pied Piper of Hamelin. The children all followed him laughing and singing, right into the river.
----------------------------------------------

Given that all that was written nearly 3 years ago, I don't think I would edit it too heavily if I had to write it again today.

Date clashes ARE one problem, but the lack of cooperation between the clubs goes deeper than that and they are often put in a situation where they are competing against each other for sidecar entries, rather than working together to fill fewer grids.

If you take out the Classic / Vintage outfits and just look at modern sidecars. There are 136 days of racing that cater for modern outfits just on the GB mainland this year. With an average grid capacity of 26 sidecars, that means there are 3,536 grid spaces (not including anything in Europe, Ireland or on the Isle of Man).
Take out TT fornight - because the sidecar world goes into suspended animation for that period - and there are 28 weekends in each race season.
If you are going to fill those spaces, you need 127 sidecars active EVERY weekend and that does not happen by any stretch of the imagination.

Less choice, less rules, fewer classes, sustainable entry fees for both competitors and clubs has to be the way forward.

[lee a]

Could running a sidecar only club work ....have all class championships all in 1 place ....10 rounds a year at 10 different circuits . just an idea . If it's costs then maybe invite carting clubs etc to help with that problem .

[tonybsa2008]

Small piont.Derby Phoenix problems at Croft was not sidecar entries,it was a lack of SOLO entries.20 outfits in the program,14 started the first race.The majority of which were Pre injection,blah,blah class.

[oldbelly]

The most worrying part of all the above is the poor BEMSEE grid.A fantastic club and susidised entries ?

[G JONES]

I can tell you what isn't the answer. Another class of sidecar. How about combining some or just letting some fall away. The FSRA preinjection, post classic, 350, what else could go in there to fill the grid a bit?

You're right Steve - it's not more classes - just a different way to try & concentrate what is currently racing - instead of having more race meetings we are unable to fill.

Better to have three full sidecar grids across the country in one weekend than eight poorly subscribed ones? (I know this is a whole new discussion, with clubs only able to take the dates offered to them by circuits etc.)
The spectacle of sidecar racing is not sold well to the general public in a spread out procession of half a dozen outfits of varying speeds and abilities around any circuit.

Just picking out the bits of your post that really stand out Tim - what do we do about it though ? - we can talk forever - it just gets worse year on year - and as Geoff says - if you can't get entries at a BEMSEE meeting with susidised entries - where will you ?
Think maybe we all need to be thinking of ways to improve the situation - and that doesn't mean getting all the "mothballed" bikes out - ain't gonna happen - but to look at ways of having more (currently active) people going to the same race meeting at the same time....and maybe find some other ways of running different classes together - maybe look at a few handicap races...
Needs a "credible" knowledgeable person with all our interests in mind to help us recover the sport before it's gone...(not me - on both counts)

[ianw]

Sidecar racing in the UK for the past 35+years has been regulated by F2 regulations which were put in place to make F2 racing a cheap alternative to Open class racing. Once the 600 were allowed in the class, the cheap went out the window & the class was condemed to 35 years of stiffleing progress.
The Formula Ford of our sport.
The rules were set by bodies that high jacked the class, the FSRA, the ACU & the ACU Road Race Committee.
Modern sidecar racing is doomed because it is all based around the 600 engine, which the Japs are going to coside to the scrap heap by discontinueing their production, even the latest F1 class which the Birchalls are supporting.
Nothing has progressed in chassis design for those 35 years because every year the rules have been kept the same, with the exception of a certain Swiss chassis builder who the ACU & the FSRA have bent over backwards to allow into the class.
The F2 regs have ruined sidecar racing, not just here but world wide because other countries follow our regs.
Chassis regs have got to be relaxed, keep leading link forks & swing arms but relax the regs on wheel alighnment, engine position' etc &allow the "tin chassis" back in.

[mervnoble]

Mr Stewart of course you were correct and remain so.

I have given up, my lovely little bike has gone to France.

See you around I hope, regards.

[craig hauxwell]

Here's a brief answer to your question Gordon, this is just Aintree alone that over the last couple of years I could name at least 10 to 15 sidecar teams that have either packed in stopped racing or retired in the north west area alone so that's where most of the grid has gone from Aintree and has filtered down to wirral100. So with no new blood coming into the sport spiralling costs of competitive machines kids or should I say younger people just cant afford to have a mortgage,or pay rent then on top a loan for £20k and run an outfit have a second vehicle and the rest that goes with it. Work commitments stop racing illness stops it but the biggest problem I think is the spiralling costs that some clubs are charging for a couple of races over a weekend. So if your lucky enough to have paid your mortgage, rent, own your bike have decent tyres, own a second vehicle paid tax and insurance and can still afford to pay the best part of £500 to go and play on it for the weekend then I think the answer is right there ......By the way Gordon that's not a pop at you mate you asked the question WHY, that's just my opinion

[G JONES]

Here's a brief answer to your question Gordon,

You're right in all you say Craig - and I guess it's not going to get any better - I wasn't asking why the grids are as low as they are - I'd agree with your assessment ! - I was looking for a way for the few that are left to carry on while we are still able - can't see many clubs wanting to host race classes with so few entrants for much longer...

[Steve-morgan]

Needs to be advertised more. No one in the general public have any idea when meetings are on. I personally don't know when a meeting is on unless I look at the 'dates section' and let's face it, joe blogs won't be doing that when there is Facebook and Twitter to keep them happy.