Honda 836cc crmc

[666]

Just as a matter of interest how was it decided that Imp/BMW`s could be out to 1000/1200, and Triples to 900+ if this wasn't possible in the original period ?

I'm not sure how many large capacity engines were used in period,but the capacity limit's were 1000cc and 1300cc,they were called the unlimited class allowing those that dared to enlarge their engines.I do remember some Triumph twins which were enlarged to more than 900cc, I built a 750cc Weslake( Rickman Triunph) using a Norton crank before 1970. There were also peep's who ran Vincent's bigger than 1000cc and VW's.

[RP]

That's the most sensible post I have read in this thread. We were at the first CRMC meeting in 1980 - only six outfits there - our 750cc BSA, (Hanks A10 crank conversion on A65, end fed oil etc.) and a Vincent 1000cc plus a NSU 900cc? - (Steve's dad) and other Triumph and Nortons etc.

[Bob B]

The original CRMC sidecar eligibility were drafted by myself using the CRMC cut-off dates for both two and four stroke motors. No engines from within that period were precluded deliberately. Other criteria were that engines outside of that period were not permissible plus a maximum engine size of 1300cc as per contemporary ACU rules. In fact Honda engines are mentioned as being eligible, viz. S800. The onus of proof for an alteration to spec, provided within period, was originally placed upon the person(s) seeking that change, no concrete proof then no change.

Regrettably some solo bods decided that out of period items (including engines/capacity) should be allowed to suit their own ends. Give an inch and a mile is soon taken resulting in those changes foisted onto the sidecar class, thus beginning the era of 'silhouette racing' with the ten feet rule.

Surely the original rules were simple enough to understand unless of course someone knew differently and due process could take it course - or not.

[Bob B]

Just as an aside - Ray's NSU would have been either 1000cc or 1200cc depending which NSU his wife Eve was driving at that time

[xxseanxx35]

Exactly any engine up to 1300 including honda

[petercaughlin]

Just as a matter of interest how was it decided that Imp/BMW`s could be out to 1000/1200, and Triples to 900+ if this wasn't possible in the original period ?

Because the rules in the day were any engine upto 1300cc.

Sorry to appear thick but doesn't that then apply to Honda`s

[jkr46]

But the crmc was set up for British and European manufacturers. The Honda's were let in on the agreement they were limited to 836.

[666]

I always thought that it was set up for bikes and engines of the period, and new stuff which complied with the ACU rules and regulations of the period???

[jkr46]

I always thought that it was set up for bikes and engines of the period, and new stuff which complied with the ACU rules and regulations of the period???

No, hence all japanese stuff was barred originally.

[xxseanxx35]

I always thought we were racing bikes from the era if a machine was used before 1972 then it should be allowed to run??? Seems to me rules are made to suit certain people!

[sidecar bloke]

Sean,

Now you're starting to p*** me off so I will give you a chance to phone me to apologise, or at least explain that ridiculous outburst.

I have Club rules going back some 8 years where it clearly states "Period 3 - multi valve, multi cylinder engines, over 750cc up to 1300cc. Also eligible are car engines from the classic period." It then states "the Honda CB750 Single overhead cam engine will be restricted to 836cc". This goes back to when Richard Holmes was eligibility officer. So, surely anybody building a Honda outfit would read the rules first and be well aware, before they spent any money, that the Honda is limited to 836cc.

I absolutely agree Hondas were bigger than 836 in the period but centre hub steering was also being used and you can't use that either. Well you can - I was just trying to make a point. Don't go with "this happened, that happened, she said, he said" go with what the rules for the CRMC state. I feel better already.

[sidecar bloke]

Interesting facts from Donington Park:-

Brian Gray - 836 Honda - 1.24.420
Kevin Hunt - 1000 Imp - 1.24.898
Jason Reilly - 980 BMW - 1.24.971
Ian Ashley - 900 Weslake 1.25.308
Matt Kingsmill - 1040 BMW - 1.25.377
Eddy Wright 1070 Imp - 1.25.831
Clint Faulkner 1200 Imp 1.26.264
Sean Reeves 836 Honda 1.26.490
Ian Johnson 1200 Imp 1.26.633
David Johnson 998 Imp 1.27.917

Interesting that the four fastest times were set by four different engines - and the "big" engines don't appear until 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th.

The fastest 750cc appears to be Jon Perkins at 1.27.891.

Another bit of possibly interesting information - Brian Gray did not BLOW his engine - he cooked it and then ran an end; Kevin Hunt cooked his Imp and ran a big end; Mike Bellaby at Chimay cooked his BMW and guess what - did a big end as well. Moral to this story - it doesn't matter what engine you've got if you cook it then it's doomed! Ian Ashley's Weslake was cooking with gas - I wonder what'll happen at Snetterton!

[steve-e]

Well done Ian I've stayed back out of this as far as moderating as it's your discussion and I'm sure you can deal with it

[SlowPhil]

Interesting facts from Donington Park:-

Brian Gray - 836 Honda - 1.24.420
Kevin Hunt - 1000 Imp - 1.24.898
Jason Reilly - 980 BMW - 1.24.971
Ian Ashley - 900 Weslake 1.25.308
Matt Kingsmill - 1040 BMW - 1.25.377
Eddy Wright 1070 Imp - 1.25.831
Clint Faulkner 1200 Imp 1.26.264
Sean Reeves 836 Honda 1.26.490
Ian Johnson 1200 Imp 1.26.633
David Johnson 998 Imp 1.27.917

Interesting that the four fastest times were set by four different engines - and the "big" engines don't appear until 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th.

The fastest 750cc appears to be Jon Perkins at 1.27.891.

Another bit of possibly interesting information - Brian Gray did not BLOW his engine - he cooked it and then ran an end; Kevin Hunt cooked his Imp and ran a big end; Mike Bellaby at Chimay cooked his BMW and guess what - did a big end as well. Moral to this story - it doesn't matter what engine you've got if you cook it then it's doomed! Ian Ashley's Weslake was cooking with gas - I wonder what'll happen at Snetterton!

Those are fast times! Where can I get the classic lap records Ian?

[sidecar bloke]

I'm on it ......hang on ,hopefully tomorrow evening [unless I find some live music] then Saturday or.....I'm on it